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Thread: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't support private persons having the ability to force you to hang various rights at the door.
    Nobody forces you to do anything. They allow you to make your own choice.
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Hmm I see your point, my source doesn't apply, but my opinion is unchanged.

    I don't support private persons having the ability to force you to hang various rights at the door. If I invite a pregnant women over for BBQ, she does not resign her right to be free from assault when she steps onto my property. IMO the right to keep and carry is identical to the right to breath.
    ... I think you are carrying your enthusiasm for guns too far. Obviously a person can prohibit any item they desire from entering their property, exempting those cases where due process of law (aka, search warrants) is at work.

    You lose the right to carry your gun when you step onto their property. You don't have to go onto their property.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... I think you are carrying your enthusiasm for guns too far. Obviously a person can prohibit any item they desire from entering their property, exempting those cases where due process of law (aka, search warrants) is at work.

    You lose the right to carry your gun when you step onto their property. You don't have to go onto their property.
    That's the thing. When property rights conflict with gun rights, the person who is given a choice is the one who has to either willingly relinquish their right to bear their gun, or they have to willingly relinquish their right to enter someone else's property.

    The only one trying to force anyone to do something is the person who wants to remove the property owners property rights.
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No one should have the authority to keep you from your weapon while on their private property any more then they can keep you from drawing breath.
    Just to make sure I understand this, you're saying that if someone invites you into their home, you have a right to carry a gun into their home without their permission? You're saying that if they ask you to leave when you refuse to get rid of the gun, that you have a right to stay in their home without their permission?

    You sound like a great houseguest.
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Nobody forces you to do anything. They allow you to make your own choice.
    You don't have the right to assault someone just because they're in your home. You don't have the right to go through their things, neither do you have the right to enter their car simply because it's parked on your driveway. We even had a thread on that last example a month ago when an employer wouldn't allow employees to smoke in their own cars while those cars were on the company parking lot. The court ruled in favor of the employees.

    I believe there was a similar case involving the storage of firearms on company property, that employees could bring them and store them in their cars. The reasoning was that a vehicle is an extension of the "person".

    When you allow someone onto your property, you are choosing to permit the basic package of rights every person carries. If you don't like it, live as a hermit.

    I bet if the sign in front of the building said "no Black people allowed inside" you would see my point of view.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-17-10 at 03:35 PM.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I bet if the sign in front of the building said "no Black people allowed inside" you would see my point of view.
    There ARE buildings that have that policy. They're called exclusive country clubs, exclusive fraternal orders, and the homes of individual racists. And they're perfectly legal.
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You don't have the right to assault someone just because they're in your home. You don't have the right to go through their things, neither do you have the right to enter their car simply because it's parked on your driveway. We even had a thread on that last example a month ago when an employer wouldn't allow employees to smoke in their own cars while those cars were on the company parking lot. The court ruled in favor of the employees.

    I believe there was a similar case involving the storage of firearms on company property, that employees could bring them and store them in their cars. The reasoning was that a vehicle is an extension of the "person".

    When you allow someone onto your property, you are choosing to permit the basic package of rights every person carries. If you don't like it, live as a hermit.

    I bet if the sign in front of the building said "no Black people allowed inside" you would see my point of view.
    So, you don't believe in private property rights?

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You don't have the right to assault someone just because they're in your home.
    To a degree, you do have that right. As long as they are forewarned that they are relinquishing their right not to be punched in the face prior to the punching.

    i.e. "Get out of my house or I will I punch you in the face." If the person doesn't leave, you are legally allowed to use force.

    Or a sign outside the door:

    "Anyone entering these premises will be punched in the face. Enter at your own risk".

    Then, by entering the premises, a person has tacitly agreed to be punched in the face.

    You don't have the right to go through their things, neither do you have the right to enter their car simply because it's parked on your driveway. We even had a thread on that last example a month ago when an employer wouldn't allow employees to smoke in their own cars while those cars were on the company parking lot. The court ruled in favor of the employees.
    Actually, you have the right to search through someone's things if you post a sign "Anyone who enters these premises will be subject to searches"


    And with the car examples we have dual property rights in effect. The property rights of the car owner and the property rights of the store owner.

    If the store owner allows them to put their cars on his property, he is allowing them an island of their own territory to do with as they would their own property. This is a case where they have their own property rights involved.

    If he doesn't want them smoking in their own cars on his property, all he needs to do is make a rule stating they cannot park their cars on his property. Then his property rights would not infringe on theirs.

    I
    believe there was a similar case involving the storage of firearms on company property, that employees could bring them and store them in their cars.
    Same thing as above.

    When you allow someone onto your property, you are choosing to permit the basic package of rights every person carries. If you don't like it, live as a hermit.
    If they refuse to relinquish the rights the property owner requires them to relinquish they aren't allowed on the property.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 05-17-10 at 03:46 PM.
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I can't agree with the notion that we should leave rights at the door if that's what a private business owner wishes.

    "All women who enter are subject to rape."

    "Children may be confiscated and sold at the building owner's discretion"

    No one should have the authority to keep you from your weapon while on their private property any more then they can keep you from drawing breath.
    Dude, it's not rape if she consents. And if a woman reads a posted sign that says, "Step onto this property and you will be ****ed", then she consents to be ****ed by way of willingly stepping onto that property knowing the "consequences".

    So, it's not rape any more than the convention center is "forcing" you to give up your guns. If you CHOOSE to go inside, then you AGREE to leave your guns at the door. You are not forced to do anything.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Just to make sure I understand this, you're saying that if someone invites you into their home, you have a right to carry a gun into their home without their permission?
    No I'm saying that if you invite anyone into your home, you are giving them permission to carry in the same act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You're saying that if they ask you to leave when you refuse to get rid of the gun, that you have a right to stay in their home without their permission?
    I didn't say that, either.

    I said such people are to be viewed with deep suspicion.

    Denying someone to carry is identical to denying someone to breath. If someone says "stop breathing or GTFO", I would of course leave. This person is being highly irrational just as those who say "don't bring you firearm in my home" are.

    If someone says "you can't be pregnant in my home", they are being irrational. If someone says "you can't be Black in my home", they are being irrational. These are exactly the same as "you can't be armed in my home".

    As to a public building, the owner should have to demonstrate a need to disarm the public in order to bar firearms. "zomg gunzorz r baaad mmkay rfol kthxby" doesn't cut it.

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