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Thread: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

  1. #91
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It is once you refuse to leave immediately. And it definitely is when you walk in oin yur own to get the tax returns.

    But let's stick with the scenario where the kids aren't ready to leave.

    After the owner asks you to leave are you looking at how much time it will take the get the kids to ready to leave and saying "it's only five more seconds. I'm getting my kids and leaving"? If so, then you aren't really doing anything wrong, IMO. If he got crazy over it, he'd be in the wrong.

    But if the time is going to be greater than that, you are essentially putting the kids at greater risk through non-compliance. Then you'd be an active participant in the escalation of things.



    P.S. I was going to say that in the described scenario you'd be better off leaving the gun in the car in the first place, but after thinking about it I realize that you'd be better off entering the unknown situation with it than without it, especially when your kids are involved.
    The way I see this going down is if I walk in, tell the kids to grab their shoes, and go. If it's something like visitation then the kids sometimes, rarely, need help getting their coat and bag.

    From walking up to the door to driving away is typically around 5 minutes or less. I hate the people my X hangs around. The totally wrong crowd. A bunch of 1%ers. I call her and let her know when I'm pulling up so that she can tell the kids I'm here. At that point it's all they can do to keep from falling over themselves to leave.

    If I'm told not to enter, and then I enter anyway, that's my bad. If I invent delays, try to start fights, start braking ****, that's all on me. You have a right to defend your home. If it were my home and some armed asshole came in and started smashing the place up, I'd go for my weapon and 911. Lord help us all if that armed asshole hid a hand and started threatening to use a gun. I know what I would do, but bullets have a funny way of bouncing off of things, even bones. Not good in any situation, especially when children are present.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-17-10 at 08:28 PM.

  2. #92
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    After I've 'taken posession' of the children from my X, if you try to kick me out without letting me take my children, you are kidnapping.

    A citizen is authorized to use deadly force to stop a kidnapping, so if you insist on escalating the situation I suggest you take great care. 30 seconds of tolerating me in your home isn't worth your life, but my children are worth mine.
    Now, if - in your timeline - your Ex kidnapped the children in the first place - you'd have an argument. And as long as you weren't bringing your unwanted gun into my house, I'd happily send the kids safely out the door with you.

    You can't simply bring your gun in and insist that I give you your children who were legally brought to my house by your ex-wife.

    If you've got a concern over the children, I'm sure there is a much calmer solution that you bringing your gun over to take them away - especially if the ex-wife is drunk.

    And this example and your arguments aren't doing the best job of arguing for gun rights. You're really starting to get insistent that your rights are stronger than my rights. It's my property. And I have the right to tell you what to do on my property.

    Your speech rights are restricted based on my prerogative as are many of your rights beyond the most very basic (just being on my property doesn't give me the right to harm you or kill you - unless I've said that you are a threat to me, please leave or I will harm you - thus giving me more leeway - thought not complete legal rights to harm you or kill you).

  3. #93
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The way I see this going down is if I walk in, tell the kids to grab their shoes, and go. If it's something like visitation then the kids sometimes, rarely, need help getting their coat and bag.

    From walking up to the door to driving away is typically around 5 minutes or less. I hate the people my X hangs around. The totally wrong crowd. A bunch of 1%ers. I call her and let her know when I'm pulling up so that she can tell the kids I'm here. At that point it's all they can do to keep from falling over themselves to leave.

    If I'm told not to enter, and then I enter anyway, that's my bad. If I invent delays, try to start fights, start braking ****, that's all on me. You have a right to defend your home.
    Yeah, it occurs to me now that you are talking very specifically about your own situation, while I'm arguing more in the realm of generalities.

    You're going to be aware of your own situations better than I am.

    If it were my home and some armed asshole came in and started smashing the place up, I'd go for my weapon and 911. Lord help us all if that armed asshole hid a hand and started threatening to use a gun. I know what I would do, but bullets have a funny way of bouncing off of things, even bones. Not good in any situation, especially when children are present.
    As I would expect anyone to. This is closer the the generalized scenario I've been envisioning or worrying about potentially occurring.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I hate the people my X hangs around. The totally wrong crowd. A bunch of 1%ers. I call her and let her know when I'm pulling up so that she can tell the kids I'm here. At that point it's all they can do to keep from falling over themselves to leave.
    "1%er" - Outlaw Motorcycle Gang????

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    While I may not entirely agree with Jerry in all details, I think an important distinction needs to be made between types of private property:

    1. Truly private, ie home, residence, family farm, your storage shed, a high-security facility.

    2. "Private" property that is actually commerical property and normally open to the public.

    I have no problem with the owner banning guns from #1 if he chooses.

    #2 should not be able to legally ban those with lawful carry permits from carrying their firearms, without an extremely good reason (ie volatile chemicals being processed on site, etc.)

    Incidentally, if you're welcome at my home, you're welcome to come armed... I'll assume you are anyway.

    (If I have reason to believe I could not trust you in my home with a gun, I don't want you in my house at all.)
    Thank you for bringing a calm voice to the other side. I did intend to stir the pot and in doing so I drowned out the over arching ideal. I'm glad you brought it to the table.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    "1%er" - Outlaw Motorcycle Gang????
    ...Googles "1%er - Outlaw Motorcycle Gang"....that kind of works also.

    Every drill our NCOs tell the Red-Phasers (ie; n00bs) that there will always be that bottom 1%, but that they don't have to be a part of it. They can be better.

    These folks my X hangs around with aren't in motorcycle gangs (to my knowledge), but they're...well...they're fairly stereotypical goth/trailer-trash. They will never amount to anything. Non of them have any collage, a real job, etc. Most of them work at a gas station or WalMart with no real future.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    ...Googles "1%er - Outlaw Motorcycle Gang"....that kind of works also.

    Every drill our NCOs tell the Red-Phasers (ie; n00bs) that there will always be that bottom 1%, but that they don't have to be a part of it. They can be better.

    These folks my X hangs around with aren't in motorcycle gangs (to my knowledge), but they're...well...they're fairly stereotypical goth/trailer-trash. They will never amount to anything. Non of them have any collage, a real job, etc. Most of them work at a gas station or WalMart with no real future.
    Okay...yeah, I googled, because I'd not heard the phrase before and didn't know what you were referring to.

    Thanks.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I personally prefer to be anonymous than be a member of a gun group.
    If every gun owner had that attitude we'd have no gun rights. If every gun owner joined the NRA and GOA or the second amendment foundation, Nancy Pelosi would be pushing for funds to build public shooting ranges and giving the public surplus ammo from LE agencies or the military



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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    uh-oh... here come the quotes.

    Because anything a founding father said 200 years ago (after having just fought a monarchy) is totally relevant to modern day pubic safety issues.
    "pubic safety issues"

    does that involve government issued condoms or tasking the CDC with elimination of crabs?



  10. #100
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I was already in the house when told to leave, and when told to leave I give every indication that I will do so asap. I have no intention of hanging around, I'm not destroying property, I'm not harassing anyone. I'm grabbing my kids and leaving, nothing else.

    That's not trespassing.



    Implied Consent. I was invited over to do something which occurs inside the home and the door was left wide open for anyone showing up for the other event. This is actually quite common especially as we ramp up to the Sturgis Rally.


    Wow.

    Pardon my segue, but all this makes me appreciate my ex-wife's current husband. Last month I came with my son to their house for a cookout. My nephew-in-law brought up the subject of guns, and after a bit X's-hubby brought out his antique collection of firearms for us to examine. He's got some nice stuff too; flintlocks about 200 years old, some early rifles with odd breechblocks, old style percussion-cap shotguns... well anyway, let's just say I like the guy even better after reading all this stuff about hostile child exchanges.

    Of course I suppose I was lucky; I got custody of my son and therefore had control of the visitation situation. If she had gotten custody, she probably would have been a bitch about it.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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