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Halliburton Could Be at Fault for Oil Spill

Jerry said:
Well that's true. We actually do have a lot of facts about how the accident occurred, however.

The funny thing is that ADK provides a lot of good sources, but he'll ignore you or flame you even if you correct your arguments when presented with new information if you don't also pick up his Liberal banner and flame Bush at every turn.
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You don't correct your arguments. You just slip in a change without admitting that you were wrong in the first place, acting as if you took the correct stance from the git go.

You only get a 'tude from me if you've given it to me first. Usually, you are the one who ignores facts, from anyone, that disprove your assumptions. Go back over your posts on this issue and you'll find you only changed your stance on this page. Remember your "methane bubble" theory?

The fact that my facts blaming Bush for so many things gets annoying just might be because ... he is responsible for so many of our problems. And the fact that you're now attacking me, without even responding to a post of mine, shows how much my facts annoy you. If you would open your eyes to the truth about Bush you wouldn't feel so bad when another of his crimes is exposed.

VanceMack, my only dog in this fight is the environment. I have stated that MMS, under Obama, is also very much responsible here.
 
ADK_Forever said:
The rigs that BP owns all have the acousticly activated BOP feature installed. However, those rigs that BP leases, like the Deepwater Horizon, do not have that safety feature.



No one that I've ever heard. THAT is the problem.



No sir, it is you who either doesn't know what the hell you're talking about or are intentionally ignoring the most recent reasons why this disaster happened.

Because BP was in a hurry they were cutting corners by skipping safety features and industry approved steps. The explosion occurred because 1) BP continued on while they knew the BOP was damaged in two areas, one accidentally by their own worker, and thus failed when it needed to work. 2) BP overrode Halliburton's plan to fill the tube with mud instead they drained the mud increasing pressure on those cement plugs directly causing the oil and gas to burst up and out exploding!

I've posted this but, you've probably ignored it because you think you know better. Read and/or listen and educate yourself.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/72881-blowout-deepwater-horizon-disaster.html
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I doubt, seriously, that you have enough of a clue about how oil drilling rigs work to express an informed opinion.

Oil wells aren't plugged with cement. Period. How many times do you have to be told that, before you catch on? Unless, the well is being plugged and abandoned. You can buy into this trufer BS all you want, but it's not going to change the facts.
 
apdst said:
I doubt, seriously, that you have enough of a clue about how oil drilling rigs work to express an informed opinion.

Oil wells aren't plugged with cement. Period. How many times do you have to be told that, before you catch on? Unless, the well is being plugged and abandoned. You can buy into this trufer BS all you want, but it's not going to change the facts.
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If you're trying to say that nobody who has never worked on an oil rig has no business commenting on what happened then you are sadly mistaken. My link explains what happened and why. Instead of playing that old rightee card of attacking the messenger, why don't you try to argue the points I've made.

Good luck.
 
ADK_Forever said:
If you're trying to say that nobody who has never worked on an oil rig has no business commenting on what happened then you are sadly mistaken. My link explains what happened and why. Instead of playing that old rightee card of attacking the messenger, why don't you try to argue the points I've made.

Good luck.
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If this was the case and proven as such, then shame on the engineers for even going along with this, in my fathers day this would have never even been considered.
 
deltabtry said:
If this was the case and proven as such, then shame on the engineers for even going along with this, in my fathers day this would have never even been considered.
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The problem is that BP holds all the cards as far as all the workers on those rigs are concerned. If they work for Halliburton and HB caves in to BP's demands then they have little say... if they want to keep their jobs that is. Now if one of them had turned BP in for some of those bad decisions... maybe this whole mess would have been avoided. Problem is, we wouldn't know what we avoided and those whistleblowers would be out of luck and a job. BP may have received a fine but, more probably another slap on the wrist.
 
ADK_Forever said:
The problem is that BP holds all the cards as far as all the workers on those rigs are concerned. If they work for Halliburton and HB caves in to BP's demands then they have little say... if they want to keep their jobs that is. Now if one of them had turned BP in for some of those bad decisions... maybe this whole mess would have been avoided. Problem is, we wouldn't know what we avoided and those whistleblowers would be out of luck and a job. BP may have received a fine but, more probably another slap on the wrist.
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Well perhaps times have changed, but drilling engineers and consultants is or was a very tight nit group or at least they were. The reason for this is any drilling engineer with this on their record will never find work in the oil patch again. I have worked on offshore rigs during summer vacations, and overseas at that, with little or no laws or regulations in place. The entire drill crew followed procedures to the letter, short cutting is a very risky business. BTW my father has been and or witnessed blowouts and the reason to much cement as a rule.
 
BTW ADK, Halliburton is a separate entity, it would be the other way around. That said Haliburton would have nothing to gain by supplying or shorting on materials, as a matter of fact it would lose money. Haliburton is for the most part a supplier and is not involved with the drill operations. BP for the most part contracts the rig and from there the operators will for the most part determine how to drill according to the time schedule set forth. Now that said, I am only recalling how it used to be done, this goes back to the late 70's and mid eighties.
 
deltabtry said:
BTW ADK, Halliburton is a separate entity, it would be the other way around. That said Haliburton would have nothing to gain by supplying or shorting on materials, as a matter of fact it would lose money. Haliburton is for the most part a supplier and is not involved with the drill operations. BP for the most part contracts the rig and from there the operators will for the most part determine how to drill according to the time schedule set forth. Now that said, I am only recalling how it used to be done, this goes back to the late 70's and mid eighties.
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Thanks. BP leases the rig and is in charge of everybody and every company on that rig. Halliburton was hired to, among other things, do the cementing. They wanted to do it the safe, approved, standard way. BP overruled, or convinced them, to do it in a very unsafe way. This caused the explosion. Should HB have stood up to BP? Absolutely. Now they have learned a valuable lesson also.
 
wrong post
 
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ADK_Forever said:
Thanks. BP leases the rig and is in charge of everybody and every company on that rig. Halliburton was hired to, among other things, do the cementing. They wanted to do it the safe, approved, standard way. BP overruled, or convinced them, to do it in a very unsafe way. This caused the explosion. Should HB have stood up to BP? Absolutely. Now they have learned a valuable lesson also.
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Now is this fact or accusations currently, if not I think we should wait on judgment. Looks to me some are looking for a fall guy. I find it hard to believe that Halliburton would go along with this.

Deep down I have a gut feeling that a drilling engineer miscalculated the cement mixture, this is usually the cause according to those in the know. Non the less I will wait and see for the final outcome. That said BP will be the one that is ultimately responsible regardless.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Hmm - that's conflicting:



So - which one is it - a rig workerrs *employed* by BP who mixed the cement (possibly doing it wrong) which caused the problem?

Or Halliburton itself via it's own employees who were suppose to be trained in this area?

If it needs to be done precisely then the people at Halliburton should handle it directly and with well trained professionals.

But, this article doesn't point out whether it was done directly by Halliburton employees - or by BP employees who are not trained in this area.
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I might can help you out here. Floorhands, (employees of the drilling rig owners) do most of the grunt work for the service hands (ie: Halliburton, Schlumberger, National Well Control, etc. Casing and stringline crews usually bring in their own workers though.)

Truth is, in most cases, the rig's driller and floorhands are more experienced and capable than the service hands being sent out to the rigs. The service hands are mostly there to see that all the equipment needed gets out to the rig and that the equipment the producer bought or leased from them, makes the grade. It's a liability thing.

If Halliburton signed off on the test, the responsibility falls directly in their lap regardless of who actually tightened the bolts or whose pump, pumped the mud. They are paid well to be liable.
 
Captain America said:
I might can help you out here. Floorhands, (employees of the drilling rig owners) do most of the grunt work for the service hands (ie: Halliburton, Schlumberger, National Well Control, etc. Casing and stringline crews usually bring in their own workers though.)

Truth is, in most cases, the rig's driller and floorhands are more experienced and capable than the service hands being sent out to the rigs. The service hands are mostly there to see that all the equipment needed gets out to the rig and that the equipment the producer bought or leased from them, makes the grade. It's a liability thing.

If Halliburton signed off on the test, the responsibility falls directly in their lap regardless of who actually tightened the bolts or whose pump, pumped the mud. They are paid well to be liable.
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The drilling engineers are the ones who give the final go ahead, and usually two are on board at all times on offshore rigs, along with a mud engineer. These guys are usually employed by the drilling contractor hired by BP. Here is a example of on summer working on a drill rig.
Oil company...Texaco
Drilling company...Aramco
Drilling consulting...Dicon
Drill ship...DMS Dalmahoy..Scottish registered
Owner of the rig...beats me
Now the one on this instance with the final say so was the Captain of the Drill ship, who had nothing to do with any oil company or drilling contractor.
 
Captain America said:
I might can help you out here. Floorhands, (employees of the drilling rig owners) do most of the grunt work for the service hands (ie: Halliburton, Schlumberger, National Well Control, etc. Casing and stringline crews usually bring in their own workers though.)

Truth is, in most cases, the rig's driller and floorhands are more experienced and capable than the service hands being sent out to the rigs. The service hands are mostly there to see that all the equipment needed gets out to the rig and that the equipment the producer bought or leased from them, makes the grade. It's a liability thing.

If Halliburton signed off on the test, the responsibility falls directly in their lap regardless of who actually tightened the bolts or whose pump, pumped the mud. They are paid well to be liable.
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BTW, the Driller has a lot of weight with his input with the engineers.
 
Drilling engineers? Do you mean Petroleum Engineers? If so, then yes, they do HELP run the show for the company leasing the rig. On the rig, however, the top-dog, representing the company who hired the rig, is usually referred to as the "Company Man." He may, or may not, be an "engineer."

Next in line is the "Tool Pusher." He is responsible for the rig and all it's employees.

However, they hire the services of countless service companies, to do various jobs throughout the process. And if the process related to their service or their product/equipment, is defective, THEY are responsible.

I have worked offshore for years.
 
deltabtry said:
BTW, the Driller has a lot of weight with his input with the engineers.
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Driller reports to the Tool Pusher. But, you're right as far as everyone working as a team.
 
Captain America said:
Driller reports to the Tool Pusher. But, you're right as far as everyone working as a team.
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MY father was a Petroleum engineer or consultant, we called him a drilling engineer. BTW I can't believe I forgot about the tool pusher, anyway I am going by my fathers experience as well as my own. Most of what I say is overseas operations as well as offshore. I do know that the oil patch has changed dramatically sense I or my father has done it, but you are correct and it looks to me that you had a hand in it at one time.
 
deltabtry said:
MY father was a Petroleum engineer or consultant, we called him a drilling engineer. BTW I can't believe I forgot about the tool pusher, anyway I am going by my fathers experience as well as my own. Most of what I say is overseas operations as well as offshore. I do know that the oil patch has changed dramatically sense I or my father has done it, but you are correct and it looks to me that you had a hand in it at one time.
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Man, I've tripped more pipe than I care to remember. I started out in worm corner roughneckin' for Marine Drilling out of Corpus Christi, on J. Storm 5. A jack-up rig. Then on Penrod 82. Another jack-up but way more modern. Then I was a completion specialist (service hand) for National Well Control for years (cushy job.)

I was talking to my good friend the other day who is a company man for Chevron and he told me I wouldn't even recognize the drill floor anymore. No chain. No tongs. No brake handle. Everything is all computers and robotics on the modern rigs these days.

I'm just old oil trash I suppose. I was the best at throwing chain left-handed and today's roughneck (or maybe better called powderpuff) probably hasn't ever seen connections made with a chain. I would love to go visit a modern day rig just to see how far technology has advanced.
 
deltabtry said:
Now is this fact or accusations currently, if not I think we should wait on judgment. Looks to me some are looking for a fall guy. I find it hard to believe that Halliburton would go along with this.

Deep down I have a gut feeling that a drilling engineer miscalculated the cement mixture, this is usually the cause according to those in the know. Non the less I will wait and see for the final outcome. That said BP will be the one that is ultimately responsible regardless.
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Mike Williams, Chief Electronics Technician in charge of the rig's computers and electrical systems. He was one of the last people to escape off the rig. In this thread I created he says the Horizon's problems started months earlier. Watch all the videos and read the interview.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/72881-blowout-deepwater-horizon-disaster.html

It would be interesting to hear what you and your dad have to say about what Williams said happened.
 
Meanwhile everyone in Congress is kissing BP's ass.

I just heard that the GOP is trying to work out a way to flip the cost of the cleanup off of BP's hands and lay it in the laps of the taxpayers.

Does BP own this country at this point?

YouTube- Should we just call the USA...BPA?
 
Re: Meanwhile everyone in Congress is kissing BP's ass.

alvagoldbook said:
I just heard that the GOP is trying to work out a way to flip the cost of the cleanup off of BP's hands and lay it in the laps of the taxpayers.

Does BP own this country at this point?

YouTube- Should we just call the USA...BPA?
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Man that was a really hackneyed first post. Dumb as dirt, oy vey I hope that is not emblematic of what we can expect of post # 2 onward from you. Somehow, I suspect it is.:doh
 
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