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Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

reefedjib said:
Why is racial profiling racism?

Police can establish road blocks to check for drunk driving. Going up to a group of people who look Mexican to inquire about legal status (immigrant or citizen) should be no different.
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In states where illegal immigration is a problem, yes. I really don't have a problem with it. My concern is when local authority pull a person over using "probable cause" as an excuse when what they're really doing is targetting a specific group of people who fit a specific racial profile. As a minority myself, that's where I have a problem. It is racial discrimination.
 
disneydude said:
So...you are suggesting that we do the GWB and lower ourselves to the standards and morals to become like those we disagree with?
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Lets drag W into this. Can we work Palin into the conversation as well? She is such an idiot... ;)
 
Navy Pride said:
This is another good issue for Republicans and Conservatives in the November elections.......Democrats don't like this law because they want the Hispanic vote and don't really care how many illegals are in this country.....Republicans and Conservatives put their political positions aside and want the checks made.

So do the American people it seems........

Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status - Rasmussen Reports

April 26 2010

Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status


Arizona Governor Jan Brewer last week signed a new law into effect that authorizes local police to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 60% of voters nationwide favor such a law, while 31% are opposed.
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What percentage favors concentration camps?
 
Objective Voice said:
In states where illegal immigration is a problem, yes. I really don't have a problem with it. My concern is when local authority pull a person over using "probable cause" as an excuse when what they're really doing is targetting a specific group of people who fit a specific racial profile. As a minority myself, that's where I have a problem. It is racial discrimination.
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Why is it racial discrimination? You aren't losing privileges by being checked. No loss of a job or failure to get an opportunity to achieve your objectives because of your race, it is just being targeted for inspection because you fit the profile.

If a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica rapes a woman in an alley and the police are called, they are going to profile. "Be on the lookout for a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica". Is this racial profiling? Age profiling? Attire profiling? Transportation profiling? Is any of this wrong? There may be several guys fitting this description, but they didn't do it. Should they be investigated?

Now what if he is Mexican or black? Isn't this profiling?
 
Strucky said:
No,I think not.
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We are debating laws of a state in the United States, not those of Mexico. Whether you think the laws of Mexico are relevant or not is meaningless because, in fact, they are irrelevant.

Kindly drop the red herring.
 
USA-1 said:
Don't the police need probable cause to stop folks? Is just being hispanic probable cause? Why does the GOP like to trample on the constitution?
They don't seem to care about ilegals either. They had six years to do something and totally ignored the problem.
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Being hispanic makes you probably Mexican, and therefore if you're in the right part of the country, probably illegal.
 
Objective Voice said:
Interesting you should mention that because it's the same argument Rush used today on his show. If I understood him correctly, his position is (and I paraphrase here) that "a driver's license is an extension of your birth verification". I can certainly understand that. Consider...

Every one of us at one time in our young teenaged or young adult lives had to either take Driver's Ed or show some proof of our age prior to being granted a driver's license, i.e., birth certificate or school records which in most cases support the place of your birth. As such, once you've acquired your driver's license that first time rarely do you have to re-certificy your birth, ala, your U.S. citizenship.
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As I stated, a Texas drivers license does not say anything about that person's citizenship status. The closest it comes is to require proof of one's SSN, which as we all know can be easily forged. Identity can be established by school records, insurance policy, vehicle title, or any number of other documents. The relevant information is here.

Thus, a Texas DL is not "an extension of your birth verification."
 
American said:
Being hispanic makes you probably Mexican, and therefore if you're in the right part of the country, probably illegal.
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That is a profoundly ignorant statement. I suspect you know it is, too. :roll:
 
reefedjib said:
Why is racial profiling racism?

Police can establish road blocks to check for drunk driving. Going up to a group of people who look Mexican to inquire about legal status (immigrant or citizen) should be no different.
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DUI checkpoints don't single out people based on race. Poor analogy.
If you seriously cannot see the difference...then no explanation on my part is going to educate you regarding the differences.
 
disneydude said:
DUI checkpoints don't single out people based on race. Poor analogy.
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I was countering your statement: "People in this country have a right to be free of police intervention, absent some belief that a crime has been committed.".

If you seriously cannot see the difference...then no explanation on my part is going to educate you regarding the differences.
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You can't seem to put it into words can you? Such as it is with conventional wisdom.
 
reefedjib said:
Why is it racial discrimination? You aren't losing privileges by being checked. No loss of a job or failure to get an opportunity to achieve your objectives because of your race, it is just being targeted for inspection because you fit the profile.

If a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica rapes a woman in an alley and the police are called, they are going to profile. "Be on the lookout for a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica". Is this racial profiling? Age profiling? Attire profiling? Transportation profiling? Is any of this wrong? There may be several guys fitting this description, but they didn't do it. Should they be investigated?

Now what if he is Mexican or black? Isn't this profiling?
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Absolutely you are losing privileges. You are losing the basic freedom of being able to walk down the street and not be subject to the whim and detention of the police state as long as you are not committing a crime.

And your analogy is another poor one. There is a HUGE difference between stopping a "White male- 25/35 wearing a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica shortly after a rape....and stopping any brown colored person at any time of the day/night where no crime has been reported.
 
American said:
Being hispanic makes you probably Mexican, and therefore if you're in the right part of the country, probably illegal.
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Yeah...because there aren't any latino American citizens that live anywhere near Arizona....or New Mexico, California or Texas. :doh
 
disneydude said:
Absolutely you are losing privileges. You are losing the basic freedom of being able to walk down the street and not be subject to the whim and detention of the police state as long as you are not committing a crime.
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I demonstrated with my example of a DUI checkpoint that in fact you can be detained with no evidence of committing a crime.

And your analogy is another poor one. There is a HUGE difference between stopping a "White male- 25/35 wearing a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica shortly after a rape....and stopping any brown colored person at any time of the day/night where no crime has been reported.
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A crime has been reported. Over 10 million illegal aliens are on the loose.
 
reefedjib said:
I was countering your statement: "People in this country have a right to be free of police intervention, absent some belief that a crime has been committed.".



You can't seem to put it into words can you? Such as it is with conventional wisdom.
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Again...DUI Checkpoints don't single out anyone based on race...therefore it is not racial profiling. (Is it really that difficult of a concept?)
 
disneydude said:
Again...DUI Checkpoints don't single out anyone based on race...therefore it is not racial profiling. (Is it really that difficult of a concept?)
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No it is not, but it shows that it is legal for police to detain those who fit a profile.
 
reefedjib said:
I demonstrated with my example of a DUI checkpoint that in fact you can be detained with no evidence of committing a crime.



A crime has been reported. Over 10 million illegal aliens are on the loose.
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Your attempts at analogies as so poor that they don't even warrant a response.

First of all, a DUI checkpoint doesn't detain anyone absent objective signs of alcohol. You are not asked to provide ID, get out of your car, etc, unless the officer smells alcohol or observes symptoms of intoxication.
There are explicit rules governing DUI checkpoints that must be adhered to to meet Constitutional guidelines. The cops cannot stop you for more than couple of seconds. That is why they don't have random Field sobriety tests.

As for your second analogy..it is so far off the mark it is beyond silly.
 
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disneydude said:
Your attempts at analogies as so poor that they don't even warrant a response.

First of all, a DUI checkpoint doesn't detain anyone absent objective signs of alcohol. You are not asked to provide ID, get out of your car, etc, unless the officer smells alcohol or observes symptoms of intoxication.
There are explicit rules governing DUI checkpoints that must be adhered to to meet Constitutional guidelines. The cops cannot stop you for more than couple of seconds. That is why they don't have random Field sobriety tests.

As for your second analogy..it is so far off the mark it is beyond silly.
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A DUI checkpoint detains for checking objective signs of alcohol. It is a detainment.

That's ok dude, I understand you aren't really up to the task.
 
reefedjib said:
A DUI checkpoint detains for checking objective signs of alcohol. It is a detainment.

That's ok dude, I understand you aren't really up to the task.
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Sorry..but you are wrong. DUI checkpoints have been challenged numerous times and have been found to be unconstitutional in some instances and not in others. Essentially the law has been carved out by the court rulings such that if the checkpoint slows the flow of traffic and the cop merely inquires whether the individual has been drinking, amounting to an inquiry of a few seconds, no detention has occurred. The cases that were ruled unconstitutional were were the police had drivers perform random FST's or asked for driver's licenses which were then run through data banks to search for warrants. Those cases were held to be detentions.

Its pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about and are the one who is not up to the task.
Got another poor analogy to argue?
 
samsmart said:
But just because a legal citizen has broken the law by speeding does that mean they can see if you did anything else illegal?
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In every state if you break the law they can check if you have any prior warrants.......That is common sense.....
 
Navy Pride said:
In every state if you break the law they can check if you have any prior warrants.......That is common sense.....
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But what they cannot do, is stop you and run you for warrants to determine if a crime has been committed. That's the distinction.
 
Under this law you have to have probable cause to stop someone and then you can check their papers to see if they are legal.....I just heard the Governor of California say that.....
 
disneydude said:
But what they cannot do, is stop you and run you for warrants to determine if a crime has been committed. That's the distinction.
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Of course they can.....they do it all the time.........
 
Navy Pride said:
Under this law you have to have probable cause to stop someone and then you can check their papers to see if they are legal.....I just heard the Governor of California say that.....
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That's incorrect. The Arizona law allows them to stop any brown person if they have "reasonable suspicion" that they are undocumented. That's the problem. What possibly could be the "reasonable suspicion" other than race?
Think about it.

And BTW Navy...I'm sure you love the part of the bill that allows any joe plumber to file a lawsuit if they think the police aren't enforcing the law. Gonna make a lot of sue-happy plaintiffs and money grubbing lawyers happy in Arizona.......lets hear what you have to say about that.....too.
 
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Its boggles the mind that you on the left would sell your sould for the Hispanic vote....Illegals are killing people in this country............
 
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