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Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

reefedjib said:
It is not harassment to prove you legal status.

When someone commits a crime, they should also be checked for immigration status, whatever their color. If Boston has a bad Irish immigration problem, then check people that look Irish.

The VAST majority of illegal aliens are Mexican and we ought to focus our resources on that problem.
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Sure...if a person commits a crime, they should and ARE checked for immigration status.

However, laws that allow people, including American Citizens, to be stopped and detained and forced to show documentation for no reason other than being BROWN....are harassment and disproportionately target those in lower socio-economic status.
 
disneydude said:
You've just identified the problem with this type of law.
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The PROBLEM, as I see it, is all the illegal aliens from Mexico. That, and the people on this side of the border who SUPPOSED to be supporting American interests over Mexican interests.

I guess we'll just have to see how this plays out.

It's kinda weird you and me not agreeing on something DD. Guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Hope I don't lose my "Cool Club" membership card. :rofl
 
reefedjib said:
It's intelligent. Most illegals are Mexican or Latin American. A defining characteristic is their skin color. We should be checking everyone of them we can find for documentation and deport those that cannot prove legal status. It is not racism.
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No, it is not intelligen this is an exmaple of a nonintteligent move. Most illegals are of all races not just mexicans, or latian americans.

Are illegal immigrant crime statistics accurate?
 
Captain America said:
The PROBLEM, as I see it, is all the illegal aliens from Mexico. That, and the people on this side of the border who SUPPOSED to be supporting American interests over Mexican interests.

I guess we'll just have to see how this plays out.

It's kinda weird you and me not agreeing on something DD. Guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Hope I don't lose my "Cool Club" membership card. :rofl
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Not at all.....I think we have been having a civil debate/disagreement.

I just think there are better ways of getting at the problem that passing silly laws like this.

This law was ill conceived, not thought out and really is just one wacko legislature writing legislation to rile the public sentiment.
The costs of the legislation will outweigh any benefits by a huge margin before it is repealed.
 
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disneydude said:
Sure...if a person commits a crime, they should and ARE checked for immigration status.
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No, they are not checked. This is why we have so many illegal alien prisoners, because many illegal aliens commit crimes and we do not deport them.

However, laws that allow people, including American Citizens, to be stopped and detained and forced to show documentation for no reason other than being BROWN....are harassment and disproportionately target those in lower socio-economic status.
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It is not harassment. Everyone should have a drivers license or an ID card and that should suffice. No detainment required.

The fact that brown skinned Mexicans may fall in a lower socio-economic status has nothing to do with it.
 
reefedjib said:
No, they are not checked. This is why we have so many illegal alien prisoners, because many illegal aliens commit crimes and we do not deport them.



It is not harassment. Everyone should have a drivers license or an ID card and that should suffice. No detainment required.

The fact that brown skinned Mexicans may fall in a lower socio-economic status has nothing to do with it.
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Don't know what state you are living in....but ICE is very active in the jails in California and all undocumented arrestees are deported in California...period.
Many of them come back after being deported, but that's a separate problem that has to be addressed by real reform, not these silly laws.

Detainment IS required when you stop someone to search for proof of citizenship based on skin color.

The fact that this law is based on racial profiling has EVERYTHING to do with this. There's something in our Country called "The United States Constitution" that prohibits it.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
No, it is not intelligen this is an exmaple of a nonintteligent move. Most illegals are of all races not just mexicans, or latian americans.
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Wrong.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/illegal.pdf

Mexico is the leading country of origin, with 2.7 million, or 54 percent, of the population. The Mexican undocumented population has grown at an average annual level of just over 150,000 since 1988. The 14 countries with 50,000 or more undocumented immigrants in 1996 accounted for 81 percent of the total population. The large majority, over 80 percent, of all undocumented immigrants are from countries in the Western Hemisphere.
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Your link has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
Strucky said:
Irony....Mexico opposes the Arizona bill and yet their laws are much much worse.
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So...you are suggesting that we do the GWB and lower ourselves to the standards and morals to become like those we disagree with?
 
disneydude said:
Don't know what state you are living in....but ICE is very active in the jails in California and all undocumented arrestees are deported in California...period.
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I did not know that...good to know.

Many of them come back after being deported, but that's a separate problem that has to be addressed by real reform, not these silly laws.
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These "silly" laws do not address the border and smuggling problem.

Detainment IS required when you stop someone to search for proof of citizenship based on skin color.
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How is detainment required?

The fact that this law is based on racial profiling has EVERYTHING to do with this. There's something in our Country called "The United States Constitution" that prohibits it.
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I am unsure whether the 14th Amendment makes racial profiling unconstitutional. Racial profiling is not racism. It is intelligent use of defining characteristics for a problem group. If it is unconstitutional, we should change that.
 
disneydude said:
So...you are suggesting that we do the GWB and lower ourselves to the standards and morals to become like those we disagree with?
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No,but then again the Arizona bill doesnt even compare with what Mexico is doing.
 
reefedjib said:
I did not know that...good to know.



These "silly" laws do not address the border and smuggling problem.



How is detainment required?



I am unsure whether the 14th Amendment makes racial profiling unconstitutional. Racial profiling is not racism. It is intelligent use of defining characteristics for a problem group. If it is unconstitutional, we should change that.
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Racial profiling ABSOLUTELY is Unconsitutional...it is well established and is definitely racisim.

As for Detainment....when you stop someone to search them for proof of citizenship, they are being "detained" under the legal definition of the term.
People in this country have a right to be free of police intervention, absent some belief that a crime has been committed. Stopping people solely based on the color of their skin to inquire, violates these very principles.
 
disneydude said:
Racial profiling ABSOLUTELY is Unconsitutional...it is well established and is definitely racisim.

As for Detainment....when you stop someone to search them for proof of citizenship, they are being "detained" under the legal definition of the term.
People in this country have a right to be free of police intervention, absent some belief that a crime has been committed. Stopping people solely based on the color of their skin to inquire, violates these very principles.
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Why is racial profiling racism?

Police can establish road blocks to check for drunk driving. Going up to a group of people who look Mexican to inquire about legal status (immigrant or citizen) should be no different.
 
Navy Pride said:
....Democrats don't like this law because they want the Hispanic vote and don't really care how many illegals are in this country.....
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Ah, yes. Echo Rush Limbaugh's words exactly. This is a perfect example of how some people can't seem to think for themselves. :doh
 
Coronado said:
Nobody has yet established how a LEO is supposed to identify an illegal immigrant by looks alone and without racially profiling.

Additionally, how does a citizen prove his status if stopped? I don't know about Arizona, but in Texas just having a drivers license doesn't prove that.
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Interesting you should mention that because it's the same argument Rush used today on his show. If I understood him correctly, his position is (and I paraphrase here) that "a driver's license is an extension of your birth verification". I can certainly understand that. Consider...

Every one of us at one time in our young teenaged or young adult lives had to either take Driver's Ed or show some proof of our age prior to being granted a driver's license, i.e., birth certificate or school records which in most cases support the place of your birth. As such, once you've acquired your driver's license that first time rarely do you have to re-certificy your birth, ala, your U.S. citizenship.

Now, assuming that your driver's license does act as valid documentation of an extension of your birth verification, it stands to reason that if a "suspected illegal alien" is pulled over or stopped for any reason whatsoever as long as they can provide a valid driver's license, the immigrant verification process should end there. The concern many politicians on both sides of the isle have is this law will end up being nothing more than racial profiling. And of course, some on the Republican side are trying to twist this into a political issue related to near-term future Congressional/Presidential elections. My take on this issue is simple:

If our government was doing their job and enforcing immigration laws already on the books OR taking the time to strengthen immigration legistlation, the state of Arizona wouldn't have had to go to such measures. But I digress...

If the state - be it AZ, TX, NV, CA or any other state in this country - was having an illegal immigration problem, they have the right to do whatever they deem necessary within federal and state guidelines to tackle the problem....even going as far as enacting new laws to combat the problem as clearly the state of Arizona has done. I see no problem with this whatsoever as long as it does NOT result in racial profiling.
 
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RyrineaHaruno said:
The medical sevices is provided basic things, and public education is only for legels now. Police have to protect every one that is is their job
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I work in the medical field, and let me preface this by say that Mexicans are very appreciative patients, I admire so much their beautiful family values and culture. But, we spend millions of dollars on expensive care for illegals, pure and simple fact. Mexicans admitted to hospitals get top quality care at taxpayer expense. No health care worker pays much attention to how this care will be paid for, that is the job of the billing dept and utilization review, no one else really discusses it.
 
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