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Thread: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

  1. #181
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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I But again, the law against being illegal is already on the books. All the laws needed are already on the books. Our failure is not one of laws, but the lack of will to enforce laws.
    This law IS about enforcement.



    That won't change here, and I am still uncomfortable with the effort to have people carry papers. It's all to historically connected to bad stuff.
    Are you against people being required to carry a drivers license and proof of insurance too?
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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Oh yeah, I'm sorry. "reasonable suspicion" It's a HUGE difference. And that's AFTER they've established "lawful contact", which doesn't include randomly stopping someone walking down the street. They have to have a REASON to be talking to you to begin with and THEN they have to have a "reasonable suspicion" that you could be undocumented to THEN ask for your proof of citizenship.

    OMFG

    The horror.

    How will the world go on. Cops might ask for someone's proof of citizenship if they stop you for some other legal reason.
    If you knew anything about the law, you would know that there is a HUGE difference between "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion". The fact that you question it shows your clear ignorance on the issue.

    "Probable cause" requires evidence that a crime has been committed and that the person sought to be detained is involved in the criminal activity.

    The "Reasonable suspicion" standard allows the police to detain based on a belief that they might uncover some criminal activity. Essentially, a fishing expedition.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Areopagitican View Post
    Actually, it does. You should read it. Someone does something stupid, the officers ask for their ID. MSNBC is spinning this as some quasi-fascist law that'll have the Gestapo running around screaming "papieren, bitte!" and there is a kernel of truth in that. You'll need identification papers if you do something stupid in Arizona.

    Otherwise, you have to highlight the portions where I'm wrong at.
    Simply put. You are wrong. You don't have to do anything stupid to be detained under this law. In fact, the reason why law enforcement agencies across the country are strongly against this, it allows any wacko citizen to file suit if they believe the police aren't doing enough to enforce the law.

    No. If they police view someone and believe that there is a reason to believe they MIGHT be undocumented, the law mandates the police to inquire or else possibly be sued.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Simply put. You are wrong. You don't have to do anything stupid to be detained under this law. In fact, the reason why law enforcement agencies across the country are strongly against this, it allows any wacko citizen to file suit if they believe the police aren't doing enough to enforce the law.

    No. If they police view someone and believe that there is a reason to believe they MIGHT be undocumented, the law mandates the police to inquire or else possibly be sued.
    So what you're saying is that we need some TORT REFORM!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    This law IS about enforcement.





    Are you against people being required to carry a drivers license and proof of insurance too?
    This law isn't about enforcement at all. If you want enforcement, the laws are already on the books.

    This law is nothing more than an ill-conceived political grandstanding stunt to appeal to the passions of their constituents.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So what you're saying is that we need some TORT REFORM!
    What are you talking about. You do know what a TORT is don't you?
    This has nothing to do with personal injury law.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If you knew anything about the law, you would know that there is a HUGE difference between "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion". The fact that you question it shows your clear ignorance on the issue.
    The fact that you defined it incorrectly below shows your ignorance on the issue.

    "Probable cause" requires evidence that a crime has been committed and that the person sought to be detained is involved in the criminal activity.
    Wrong.

    Probable cause exists when "the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime."

    The "Reasonable suspicion" standard allows the police to detain based on a belief that they might uncover some criminal activity. Essentially, a fishing expedition.
    Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch.

    The difference between the two is astounding.

    Also:
    In Terry v. Ohio, the Supreme Court ruled that a person can be stopped and frisked by a police officer based on a reasonable suspicion. Such a detention does not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizure.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 04-30-10 at 12:19 AM.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Snippet
    Those aren't facts! You know how I know? It wasn't on MSNBC.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    I submit patiently to all kinds of Laws now seat belts proof of Insurance
    Drivers Liscense. Hunting liscense Voter registration Passport. Blah fricken Blah.. Check us yes Check us After 9/11 you have to show proof of residence to get your drivers liscense and plates in Indiana. So It is a big crapin bunch of feely goodism aimed at letting the less fortunate git in here and git er dun with out having to pay dues like the other immigrants have. Enough! ARIZONA
    do not back down we are with you and soon The rep an dems will see we are with you. 2010 electorate revolution. sponsered by a proud hoosier.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    This law IS about enforcement.
    That is true. If you accept that human beings can be illegal simply for coming here, and that it is natural and good that people should be snatched out of their homes, torn away from their families and deported back to Mexico against their will simply because they were born there (as I suppose most Americans do) then there's no reason not to support this law. It's just the enforcement of that same principle. It's an idiotic, nationalistic, racist sort of principle. But it's widely held, even among many on the so-called left.
    "We may have destroyed this country, but we got rich doing it!" --The GOP
    There is a special place in hell for those who care only about themselves.

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