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Thread: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

  1. #141
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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    To see if you are a citizen or legal alien.
    You're going to have to amend the Constitution or find an activist Supreme Court for that one.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, being hispanic looking isn't probable cause. Which is why it's a non-issue.
    But it WILL be.

    Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    But it WILL be.

    Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?
    By being not white.

    But if I were a cop, I'd go around busting on the white people. "Hey there....you seem French to me; let's see those papers! Hey...over there, you from Russia? Papers. Hey guy with the "chips", you strike me as British...papers!"

    See how long the law lasts.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    But it WILL be.

    Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?
    How does anyone look like they're doing something illegal? There are behaviors that people commonly exhibit when they're committing a crime and/or trying to hide the fact that they have. How do you think probable cause is ever applied? We've had probable cause caveats forever in our laws, why all the uproar now?

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    How does anyone look like they're doing something illegal?
    I dont know, why dont you tell us? As someone who exudes such authority and knowledge on the matter.

    There are behaviors that people commonly exhibit when they're committing a crime and/or trying to hide the fact that they have.
    Such as?

    How do you think probable cause is ever applied?
    Well let's look it up.

    Probable cause is where known facts and circumstances, of a reasonably trustworthy nature, are sufficient to justify a man of reasonable caution or prudence in the belief that a crime has been or is being committed. (reasonable man definition; common textbook definition; comes from Draper v. U.S. 1959)

    Probable cause is what would lead a person of reasonable caution to believe that something connected with a crime is on the premises of a person or on persons themselves. (sometimes called the nexus definition; nexus is the connection between PC, the person's participation, and elements of criminal activity; determining nexus is the job of a judicial official, and it's almost always required in cases of search warrants, not arrest warrants)

    Probable cause is the sum total of layers of information and synthesis of what police have heard, know, or observe as trained officers. (comes from Smith v. U.S. 1949 establishing the experienced police officer standard)

    Mmmm...I dont see anything about "looking illegal." And you still need to explain how someone LOOKS illegal.

    Also, look up how often a police officer claiming suspicious behavior works in court.

    We've had probable cause caveats forever in our laws, why all the uproar now?
    Because they've never had the very strong possibility of being applied solely based on racial characteristics.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  6. #146
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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Mmmm...I dont see anything about "looking illegal." And you still need to explain how someone LOOKS illegal.
    No, I do not. Since I'm not the one claiming such nonsense. What you need to do is find in the law where it states explicitly that someone can be detained for "looking illegal".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Because they've never had the very strong possibility of being applied solely based on racial characteristics.
    They have ALWAYS had the possibility of being applied soley on race. ALWAYS. And if it is applied incorrectly on occasion then the courts will take care of it, just like they do now.

    So where is the issue again? And how is it any different than before?
    Last edited by rivrrat; 04-29-10 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    But it WILL be.

    Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?
    even though it's in the law and in the executive order that it won't?

    ya'll are reaching.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, I do not. Since I'm not the one claiming such nonsense. What you need to do is find in the law where it states explicitly that someone can be detained for "looking illegal".
    People favor a statute whereby police can stop and ask people for verification of their legal status. Now how do officers determine who to stop. You answered that there were certain "things" people do when they're doing something illegal. I want to know what these "things" are.

    They have ALWAYS had the possibility of being applied soley on race. ALWAYS. And if it is applied incorrectly on occasion then the courts will take care of it, just like they do now.
    Is that why most of our prison population is black and Latino?

    So where is the issue again? And how is it any different than before?
    I'm uncomfortable giving law enforcement a valid reason to hassle people because of their skin color.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    even though it's in the law and in the executive order that it won't?

    ya'll are reaching.
    Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    People favor a statute whereby police can stop and ask people for verification of their legal status. Now how do officers determine who to stop. You answered that there were certain "things" people do when they're doing something illegal. I want to know what these "things" are.
    Why don't you ask a cop how they determine probable cause for anything. They are trained for such things.

    Is that why most of our prison population is black and Latino?
    Our prisons are full of people who committed crimes and got caught. Are you implying they shouldn't have been caught?

    I'm uncomfortable giving law enforcement a valid reason to hassle people because of their skin color.
    Then don't. This law surely doesn't.

    Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.
    And the courts will correct any misapplications of probable cause, just like they do now.

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    Re: Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.
    oh. well, that's logical.

    i hereby announce that All Americans should oppose Obamacare, for the reason that enforcement of the provision requiring all Americans to purchase health insurance will involve the IRS coming to your home and gunning your family down.

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