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Thread: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    In other words, you don't want to provide the evidence for your assertions but instead you want to simply throw out some out of context number. That's probably because you know you can't provide that evidence.

    Hannity falsely claimed Reagan tax cuts "doubled revenues ... from $500 billion to over $1 trillion" | Media Matters for America
    , now that is funny, I posted Bureau of Economic Analysis numbers and you say they are wrong? Where did those numbers come from? I provided the evidence, and you have provided nothing to refute them. Media Matters isn't reliable and is a George Soros funded hate organization. BEA is non partisan and captures data from the U.S. Treasury. You, sir, are misguided.

    By the way, there is nothing in that link that refutes what I posted but instead tries to adjust for inflation. The numbers posted are real and come from a non partisan organization. This just goes to show how partisan and out of touch with reality you really are.
    Last edited by Conservative; 04-29-10 at 06:08 PM.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    , now that is funny, I posted Bureau of Economic Analysis numbers and you say they are wrong? Where did those numbers come from? I provided the evidence, and you have provided nothing to refute them. Media Matters isn't reliable and is a George Soros funded hate organization. BEA is non partisan and captures data from the U.S. Treasury. You, sir, are misguided.

    By the way, there is nothing in that link that refutes what I posted but instead tries to adjust for inflation. The numbers posted are real and come from a non partisan organization. This just goes to show how partisan and out of touch with reality you really are.
    The numbers by themselves don't mean ****. Did the economy pick up? Wouldn't that increase revenues? Did more businesses open their doors? Wouldn't that increase revenue? Were revenues artificially low when Reagan took office? Again, you never answered my questions, you simply posted a link to a site which is not the same thing. Obviously you'd prefer not to answer them. Good enough, as long as we are all clear on your tactic.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    The numbers by themselves don't mean ****. Did the economy pick up? Wouldn't that increase revenues? Did more businesses open their doors? Wouldn't that increase revenue? Were revenues artificially low when Reagan took office? Again, you never answered my questions, you simply posted a link to a site which is not the same thing. Obviously you'd prefer not to answer them. Good enough, as long as we are all clear on your tactic.
    Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

    Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

    You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

    When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

    Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

    You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

    When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.
    Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?
    Are you reading challenged, I answered your questions. The link you posted adjusts the numbers for inflation. What inflation? Where did the inflation number come from? What were the interest rates when Reagan took office and what were they when Reagan took office?

    You are so quick to buy Media Matters information?

    You asked a question if business grew during Reagan and I answered. What other question do you want me to answer?

    I gave you actual numbers which you countered with a manufactured inflation number. Keep digging that hole deeper.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    In other words, you don't want to provide the evidence for your assertions but instead you want to simply throw out some out of context number. That's probably because you know you can't provide that evidence.

    Hannity falsely claimed Reagan tax cuts "doubled revenues ... from $500 billion to over $1 trillion" | Media Matters for America
    Hahahaha!!!

    Media Matters!? Seriously!?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Hahahaha!!!

    Media Matters!? Seriously!?
    He expects people to take him seriously when he offers Media Matters as a source. What a joke! Is there any wonder this country is in a mess when you have such partisans that ignore actual numbers presented by non partisan sources?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Well, we can only hope the Republican leadership hurries up and gets out of the way.
    Who's we? You got a frog in your pocket or something?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?
    Keep running NoJingoLingo from the posts that counter your claims. Media Matters loves having people like you for you are the kind of person that they prey on.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

    Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

    You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

    When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Are you reading challenged, I answered your questions. The link you posted adjusts the numbers for inflation. What inflation? Where did the inflation number come from? What were the interest rates when Reagan took office and what were they when Reagan took office?

    You are so quick to buy Media Matters information?

    You asked a question if business grew during Reagan and I answered. What other question do you want me to answer?

    I gave you actual numbers which you countered with a manufactured inflation number. Keep digging that hole deeper.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Hahahaha!!!

    Media Matters!? Seriously!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    He expects people to take him seriously when he offers Media Matters as a source. What a joke! Is there any wonder this country is in a mess when you have such partisans that ignore actual numbers presented by non partisan sources?
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Keep running NoJingoLingo from the posts that counter your claims. Media Matters loves having people like you for you are the kind of person that they prey on.
    I posted the link to Media Matters merely to show that there is more to the MEANING of the raw numbers you posted than simply posting them. If I told you that last year I put 1 million dollars in my personal bank account, someone might think I made a lot of money. Of course it could also be that I got a big inheritance or won a lottery... but allow me to quote some cons around here, "prove the information from the source is wrong instead of discounting it because you don't like the source".

    Bottom line, since you are afraid to talk about the numbers in context, is that you're wrong about tax cuts being the reason for the increase in revenue.

    Reagan and revenue

    Ah – commenter Tom says, in response to my post on taxes and revenues:

    Taxes were cut at the beginning of the Reagan administration.

    Federal tax receipts increased by 50% by the end of the Reagan Administration.

    Although correlation does not prove causation the tax cut must have accounted for some portion of this increase in federal tax receipts.


    I couldn’t have asked for a better example of why it’s important to correct for inflation and population growth, both of which tend to make revenues grow regardless of tax policy.

    Actually, federal revenues rose 80 percent in dollar terms from 1980 to 1988. And numbers like that (sometimes they play with the dates) are thrown around by Reagan hagiographers all the time.

    But real revenues per capita grew only 19 percent over the same period — better than the likely Bush performance, but still nothing exciting. In fact, it’s less than revenue growth in the period 1972-1980 (24 percent) and much less than the amazing 41 percent gain from 1992 to 2000.

    Is it really possible that all the triumphant declarations that the Reagan tax cuts led to a revenue boom — declarations that you see in highly respectable places — are based on nothing but a failure to make the most elementary corrections for inflation and population growth? Yes, it is. I know we’re supposed to pretend that we’re having a serious discussion in this country; but the truth is that we aren’t.

    Update: For the econowonks out there: business cycles are an issue here — revenue growth from trough to peak will look better than the reverse. Unfortunately, business cycles don’t correspond to administrations. But looking at revenue changes peak to peak is still revealing. So here’s the annual rate of growth of real revenue per capita over some cycles:

    1973-1979: 2.7%
    1979-1990: 1.8%
    1990-2000: 3.2%
    2000-2007 (probable peak): approximately zero

    Do you see the revenue booms from the Reagan and Bush tax cuts? Me neither.
    Reagan and revenue - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
    Effect of the Reagan and Kennedy Tax Cuts

    Tax cuts increase tax collections
    Last edited by NoJingoLingo; 04-30-10 at 10:25 AM.

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