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Thread: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Goldenboy, I have yet to see anyone answer this question:

    What's the point in cutting taxes on businesses who are losing money because of the recession?

    There's no profit to be taxed. How can you be hurting them when they are not legally obligated to pay?

    If I cut taxes on someone who has a small business being reported on their schedule C who's losing money to the point they have no taxable income (this happens more often then you'd think), how does that help them?

    Woooh! We cut your taxes! Too bad you didn't have anything to tax in the first place!
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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    Except that the US still is the largest manufacturing country in the world by leaps and bounds. Technology is pretty much killing manufacturing jobs. Replacing a thousand line workers with 5 guys running automated systems.
    I did a paper on that 25 years ago, in college....
    I don't think automation damaged the American job market that much, it just raised the required education bar for workers a bit.
    It is one thing to automate an American factory, it is another when the factory and all its automated equipment is shipped out of country.
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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Obama's options were:

    A.) Do nothing at all

    B.) Cut taxes

    C.) Enact fiscal spending

    Now while you may not agree, options A & B have had disaterous effects. Please do not bring up Reagan, as that was a different time (debt wise) and different type of recession.

    The world economy is on life support. You would be hard pressed to make a case that we would have been better off.



    This is what a true leader embodies, doing the right thing even if it is unpopular and leads to "early retirement". While current reform does not address all of the long term spending issues, it is a step in the right direction (imho).

    Would you please explain to me how tax revenue to the U.S. Govt. doubled AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? How much of the Reagan debt was created in 1981-82 prior to the affects of the tax cuts?

    This tired old argument that you and others make ignores actual facts and history. You also all seem to not understand basic civics that defines who authorizes the spending. Obama claimed he inherited a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. That is a lie. He inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar cumulative debt created by all Administrations and now has added over 2 trillion to it. Deficit is yearly, debt is cumulative. Fiscal year of the U.S. Govt. is October-September and Obama took office 4 months into fiscal year 2009. There was no 1.3 trillion deficit on January 20, 2009 but it sure makes for a great soundbyte that liberals love to support.

    Barack Obama was in the Congress of the United States the last two years of the Bush Administration. What was his voting record on the spending bills during those last two years. In additiion Bush didn't propose the 842 billion stimulus plan nor did Bush spend all the TARP money leaving 350 billion to Obama, nor did Bush bailout GM/Chrysler, and Bush didn't increase the unemployment rate from 7.6% to 10%.

    You can keep re-writing history but all that does is destroy what little credibility you have. Guess you don't care that much about being accurate or being credible.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Would you please explain to me how tax revenue to the U.S. Govt. doubled AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? How much of the Reagan debt was created in 1981-82 prior to the affects of the tax cuts?

    This tired old argument that you and others make ignores actual facts and history. You also all seem to not understand basic civics that defines who authorizes the spending. Obama claimed he inherited a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. That is a lie. He inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar cumulative debt created by all Administrations and now has added over 2 trillion to it. Deficit is yearly, debt is cumulative. Fiscal year of the U.S. Govt. is October-September and Obama took office 4 months into fiscal year 2009. There was no 1.3 trillion deficit on January 20, 2009 but it sure makes for a great soundbyte that liberals love to support.

    Barack Obama was in the Congress of the United States the last two years of the Bush Administration. What was his voting record on the spending bills during those last two years. In additiion Bush didn't propose the 842 billion stimulus plan nor did Bush spend all the TARP money leaving 350 billion to Obama, nor did Bush bailout GM/Chrysler, and Bush didn't increase the unemployment rate from 7.6% to 10%.

    You can keep re-writing history but all that does is destroy what little credibility you have. Guess you don't care that much about being accurate or being credible.
    Just as I thought, no response. Those that want to demonize Reagan ignore the actual facts about the Reagan economy and cannot explain how tax revenue doubled after the Reagan tax cuts. That simply diverts from the current President's economic policy that has created trillions in additional debt.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Just as I thought, no response. Those that want to demonize Reagan ignore the actual facts about the Reagan economy and cannot explain how tax revenue doubled after the Reagan tax cuts. That simply diverts from the current President's economic policy that has created trillions in additional debt.
    What Tax revenue are you referring to, income, corporate... Provide the proof that tax revenue doubled the year following the cuts and show that this doubling was sustained year to year thereafter.

    Unless you'd like to make some excuse not to provide that evidence.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    What Tax revenue are you referring to, income, corporate... Provide the proof that tax revenue doubled the year following the cuts and show that this doubling was sustained year to year thereafter.

    Unless you'd like to make some excuse not to provide that evidence.
    BEA.gov will give you the information. Tax revenues doubled during the Reagan years and that is a fact. Explain to me how that happened when he cut tax rates 25% over three years

    Total tax revenue, Income and corporate taxes. Do some research and stop making a fool of yourself. By the way, thanks for reporting me again. Love it when I can tick off a liberal.

    Tax revenue Dec. 1980- 841.8
    Tax Revenue Dec. 1988-1608.0

    U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Goldenboy, I have yet to see anyone answer this question:

    What's the point in cutting taxes on businesses who are losing money because of the recession?

    There's no profit to be taxed. How can you be hurting them when they are not legally obligated to pay?

    If I cut taxes on someone who has a small business being reported on their schedule C who's losing money to the point they have no taxable income (this happens more often then you'd think), how does that help them?

    Woooh! We cut your taxes! Too bad you didn't have anything to tax in the first place!
    I suppose every business in the country is like that? All of them are losing money? No, some are still making money, and having less of that money taxed is very beneficial to them; sole proprietorships account for the majority of businesses in the US, and many of these small business owners would like to retain more of their profits, as they are used to pay for food, shelter, and clothing for their families, as well as maintaining their business. So, while it may not help businesses that are operating at a loss, tax cuts for businesses who have tight margins are extremely beneficial to them.

    We should also cut the corporate tax rates, so they can retain more jobs during recessions.

    But, of course, tax cuts don't work because individual people are just too damn stupid and helpless to spend their money efficiently and properly. No, we need big government to allocate resources and money...

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except that the US still is the largest manufacturing country in the world by leaps and bounds. Technology is pretty much killing manufacturing jobs. Replacing a thousand line workers with 5 guys running automated systems.
    Finally something I can agree with!!!

    Automation will continue to replace jobs that are performed manually whenever possible; this trend could be slowed by decreasing the operating costs of businesses, but I doubt the unions and government have any interest in doing that.

    Americans must adapt to the evolving job market by acquiring skills in finance and information technology; they must also place an increased emphasis on competing globally, instead of fighting and resisting it with populism and protectionism; if they choose the latter strategy, they will be undercut by foreign labor and development. I think we must also prepare for a decrease - albeit a moderate one - in our standard of living over the coming decades.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    What Tax revenue are you referring to, income, corporate... Provide the proof that tax revenue doubled the year following the cuts and show that this doubling was sustained year to year thereafter.

    Unless you'd like to make some excuse not to provide that evidence.
    Having problems with my response, NoJingoLingo? Facts always get in your way, don't they? Maybe you ought to stop letting an ideology make a fool out of you.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    BEA.gov will give you the information. Tax revenues doubled during the Reagan years and that is a fact. Explain to me how that happened when he cut tax rates 25% over three years

    Total tax revenue, Income and corporate taxes. Do some research and stop making a fool of yourself. By the way, thanks for reporting me again. Love it when I can tick off a liberal.

    Tax revenue Dec. 1980- 841.8
    Tax Revenue Dec. 1988-1608.0

    U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
    In other words, you don't want to provide the evidence for your assertions but instead you want to simply throw out some out of context number. That's probably because you know you can't provide that evidence.

    Hannity falsely claimed Reagan tax cuts "doubled revenues ... from $500 billion to over $1 trillion" | Media Matters for America

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