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Thread: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    I suppose every business in the country is like that? All of them are losing money? No, some are still making money, and having less of that money taxed is very beneficial to them; sole proprietorships account for the majority of businesses in the US, and many of these small business owners would like to retain more of their profits, as they are used to pay for food, shelter, and clothing for their families, as well as maintaining their business. So, while it may not help businesses that are operating at a loss, tax cuts for businesses who have tight margins are extremely beneficial to them.

    We should also cut the corporate tax rates, so they can retain more jobs during recessions.

    But, of course, tax cuts don't work because individual people are just too damn stupid and helpless to spend their money efficiently and properly. No, we need big government to allocate resources and money...
    Yeah, right....cutting the corporate tax rate will save jobs during recessions.
    The tooth fairy and easter bunny are giggling over that one....

    Missing from the arguments of some is what happened to national debt while Reagan was president. It is easy to tax less and spend more if you are borrowing from your grandchildren...
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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I posted the link to Media Matters merely to show that there is more to the MEANING of the raw numbers you posted than simply posting them. If I told you that last year I put 1 million dollars in my personal bank account, someone might think I made a lot of money. Of course it could also be that I got a big inheritance or won a lottery... but allow me to quote some cons around here, "prove the information from the source is wrong instead of discounting it because you don't like the source".

    Bottom line, since you are afraid to talk about the numbers in context, is that you're wrong about tax cuts being the reason for the increase in revenue.


    Effect of the Reagan and Kennedy Tax Cuts

    Tax cuts increase tax collections
    Very interesting that you include 1979-1981 in your analysis since the tax cuts weren't into affect and the country was going into recession. Another recession occurred in 1990. Way to go!

    Explain to us how tax revenue doubled AFTER the tax cuts that went into effect in the fall of 1981? You are going to have to do better than you normally do. Business cycle? interesting how that wasn't considered when Obama signed his 800 billion dollar stimulus plan. There was no consideration to business cycle then, why?

    Regardless of your biased, partisan opinion, you nor anyone else can explain why tax revenue doubled nor can you explain the inflation number during the Reagan years because there wasn't any or inflation was very low so you had to make up numbers.

    Keep spouting what Media Maters tells you. Makes you just the kind of person they love to have. Apparently you have very little pride in yourself.
    Last edited by Conservative; 04-30-10 at 11:27 AM.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Yeah, right....cutting the corporate tax rate will save jobs during recessions.
    The tooth fairy and easter bunny are giggling over that one....

    Missing from the arguments of some is what happened to national debt while Reagan was president. It is easy to tax less and spend more if you are borrowing from your grandchildren...
    Cutting taxes, BOTH corporate and personal income taxes stimulates and grows the economy. Since no one else will explain it, how about you, how did tax revenue double during the Reagan years AFTER he cut personal and corporate taxes?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Yeah, right....cutting the corporate tax rate will save jobs during recessions.
    The tooth fairy and easter bunny are giggling over that one....

    Missing from the arguments of some is what happened to national debt while Reagan was president. It is easy to tax less and spend more if you are borrowing from your grandchildren...
    Power of the purse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Very interesting that you include 1979-1981 in your analysis since the tax cuts weren't into affect and the country was going into recession. Another recession occurred in 1990. Way to go!

    Explain to us how tax revenue doubled AFTER the tax cuts that went into effect in the fall of 1981? You are going to have to do better than you normally do. Business cycle? interesting how that wasn't considered when Obama signed his 800 billion dollar stimulus plan. There was no consideration to business cycle then, why?

    Regardless of your biased, partisan opinion, you nor anyone else can explain why tax revenue doubled nor can you explain the inflation number during the Reagan years because there wasn't any or inflation was very low so you had to make up numbers.

    Keep spouting what Media Maters tells you. Makes you just the kind of person they love to have. Apparently you have very little pride in yourself.
    Explain how revenues increased before the tax cuts were made and also the year in which the cuts were made, before they went into effect.

    I didn't post anything from Media Matters other than that one link, which you apparently neglected to dispute. I notice you didn't dispute anything in the other links nor in the commentary from an economist who has such awards as the John Bates Clark Medal (1991) and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (2008).

    I wonder why?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Cutting taxes, BOTH corporate and personal income taxes stimulates and grows the economy. Since no one else will explain it, how about you, how did tax revenue double during the Reagan years AFTER he cut personal and corporate taxes?
    I gave you the information on how your premise is flawed but you continue to ignore the facts in favor of your desired opinion.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Easy, spend less. The government wastes so much money and overpays for many projects. The government needs to make serous cuts and live within its means like any normal person. The government needs to shrink and drastically reduce spending in areas that it can.
    whenever someone says 'easy, make serious cuts, shrink the government' i always ask, ok, how? what would you cut? by how much? and what programs that you support, are you willing to see cut to balance the budget?

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Explain how revenues increased before the tax cuts were made and also the year in which the cuts were made, before they went into effect.

    I didn't post anything from Media Matters other than that one link, which you apparently neglected to dispute. I notice you didn't dispute anything in the other links nor in the commentary from an economist who has such awards as the John Bates Clark Medal (1991) and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (2008).

    I wonder why?

    So tell me how the tax revenue doubled when Reagan cut taxes 25% across the board? That is contrary to everything a liberal spouts which isn't surprising.

    The numbers posted show 79-80-81 prior to the tax cuts. Have you even looked at govt. revenue prior to the tax cuts which went into effect in 1982? Can you explain why Reagan won a landslide in 84, one of the biggest on record?

    Stop spinning and get the facts.

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Would you please explain to me how tax revenue to the U.S. Govt. doubled AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? How much of the Reagan debt was created in 1981-82 prior to the affects of the tax cuts?

    This tired old argument that you and others make ignores actual facts and history. You also all seem to not understand basic civics that defines who authorizes the spending. Obama claimed he inherited a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. That is a lie. He inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar cumulative debt created by all Administrations and now has added over 2 trillion to it. Deficit is yearly, debt is cumulative. Fiscal year of the U.S. Govt. is October-September and Obama took office 4 months into fiscal year 2009. There was no 1.3 trillion deficit on January 20, 2009 but it sure makes for a great soundbyte that liberals love to support.

    Barack Obama was in the Congress of the United States the last two years of the Bush Administration. What was his voting record on the spending bills during those last two years. In additiion Bush didn't propose the 842 billion stimulus plan nor did Bush spend all the TARP money leaving 350 billion to Obama, nor did Bush bailout GM/Chrysler, and Bush didn't increase the unemployment rate from 7.6% to 10%.

    You can keep re-writing history but all that does is destroy what little credibility you have. Guess you don't care that much about being accurate or being credible.
    We had this argument before, and you were intellectually outgunned, clinging motionless to your "tax revenue" statement without taking into consideration the context. Being as you do not fully understand how supply side economics functions, along with its limitations regarding policy, i am not the least bit shocked.

    The 1980's began with serious bouts of inflation and stagnating growth. Cutting taxes (supply determinant) helped alleviate pricing pressures, combined with a military Keynesian spending approach helped foster growth.

    But we are not in the 1980's, and the issue is deflation not inflation.

    So do answer me one question: What are the pricing ramifications for heavy tax reductions? Being that you lack any serious insight into supply side economics, i expect your response to lack an answer to this question. You may now rant on.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 04-30-10 at 02:09 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

    I just find it funny that Democrats are automatically deemed to be the "good guys" and Republicans are deemed the "bad guys" in this charade in great deal because of numbers. Just like if the roles were reversed and Republicans were in favor of legislature that is questionable at best in similar numbers and voting turnouts as now, Democrats would be the "party of no" and automatically assumed to be wrong and in the way of progress.

    Well, unless you're illogical hyper-ideologues like disneydude or his right-wing counterpart. I don't quantify them.

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