• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bin Laden had 'no clue' about Sept. 11 retaliation

75 posts and nobody mentioned Sandy Berger?
 
American said:
Osama bin Laden did not know or understand George W Bush. He did not know that Bush meant what he said, that the tough talk also walked.
Click to expand...

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o"]YouTube- Bush: Truly not concerned about bin Laden (short version)[/nomedia]
 
rivrrat said:
Wrong. Insane, power hungry, ****tards like bin Laden and his ignorant, foolhardy followers led directly to the 911 attacks.

If someone chooses not to defend themselves, they are not to blame for being attacked. The attackers, and the attackers ALONE are to blame for their actions.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with the Good Rev and his ilk on this one. I was still on active duty when the USS Stark and the two U.S. Embasses were hit. I can tell you onboard my ship, the USS AMERICAN (CV66) (Decommissioned), the entire crew was outraged that only a missile strike was ultimately called especially when the Stark was bombed. I remember many of us in Intell and Combat Ops reading classified messages that essentially detailing how terrorist regimes where beginning to become more emboldened even then, but neither the Clinton Administration nor the Bush-43 Administration did anything significant about it until after 9/11. And then to read the 9/11 Commission Report where DoD and CIA officials argued over who would pay for predetor drone strikes or were more concerned over civilian collateral damange or politican standing when we had the enemy clearly in our sights on atleast four separate occasions! Oh, yeah! On this one, I side with the other guys. We could have did alot more to prevent 9/11 long ago, but we didn't.
 
Objective Voice said:
Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with the Good Rev and his ilk on this one. I was still on active duty when the USS Stark and the two U.S. Embasses were hit. I can tell you onboard my ship, the USS AMERICAN (CV66) (Decommissioned), the entire crew was outraged that only a missile strike was ultimately called especially when the Stark was bombed. I remember many of us in Intell and Combat Ops reading classified messages that essentially detailing how terrorist regimes where beginning to become more emboldened even then, but neither the Clinton Administration nor the Bush-43 Administration did anything significant about it until after 9/11. And then to read the 9/11 Commission Report where DoD and CIA officials argued over who would pay for predetor drone strikes or were more concerned over civilian collateral damange or politican standing when we had the enemy clearly in our sights on atleast four separate occasions! Oh, yeah! On this one, I side with the other guys. We could have did alot more to prevent 9/11 long ago, but we didn't.
Click to expand...

Who was the enemy, and where were they, and how could we have hit them?

That's the entire problem with terrorists - they aren't a state, they don't have terrority to invade or military bases to attack or whatever. And sometimes the most effective action against them isn't always the one that makes us feel good or satisfy our desire for revenge in a big ball of flame.
 
Objective Voice said:
Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with the Good Rev and his ilk on this one. I was still on active duty when the USS Stark and the two U.S. Embasses were hit. I can tell you onboard my ship, the USS AMERICAN (CV66) (Decommissioned), the entire crew was outraged that only a missile strike was ultimately called especially when the Stark was bombed. I remember many of us in Intell and Combat Ops reading classified messages that essentially detailing how terrorist regimes where beginning to become more emboldened even then, but neither the Clinton Administration nor the Bush-43 Administration did anything significant about it until after 9/11. And then to read the 9/11 Commission Report where DoD and CIA officials argued over who would pay for predetor drone strikes or were more concerned over civilian collateral damange or politican standing when we had the enemy clearly in our sights on atleast four separate occasions! Oh, yeah! On this one, I side with the other guys. We could have did alot more to prevent 9/11 long ago, but we didn't.
Click to expand...

That does not make someone responsible for the actions of a madman. Only the madman is responsible for his actions.
 
rivrrat said:
That does not make someone responsible for the actions of a madman. Only the madman is responsible for his actions.
Click to expand...




Will Munny: Who's the fellow owns this ****hole?
[pause]
Will Munny: You, fat man. Speak up.
Skinny Dubois: Uh, I... I own this establishment. I bought the place from Greeley for a thousand dollars.
[Will levels the shotgun, and speaks to someone standing behind Skinny]
Will Munny: You better clear outta there.
Man: Yes, sir.
[scampers out of the way]
Little Bill Daggett: Just hold it right there. Hold it...!
[Will shoots Skinny. Screaming, the women scatter upstairs]
Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!
Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.





Our actions, inactions have consequences, while its nice to say "don't blame the vitctim" all to often in this world "victims" do some pretty stupid things that get themselves in trouble. It's a sad reality.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Will Munny: Who's the fellow owns this ****hole?
[pause]
Will Munny: You, fat man. Speak up.
Skinny Dubois: Uh, I... I own this establishment. I bought the place from Greeley for a thousand dollars.
[Will levels the shotgun, and speaks to someone standing behind Skinny]
Will Munny: You better clear outta there.
Man: Yes, sir.
[scampers out of the way]
Little Bill Daggett: Just hold it right there. Hold it...!
[Will shoots Skinny. Screaming, the women scatter upstairs]
Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!
Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.





Our actions, inactions have consequences, while its nice to say "don't blame the vitctim" all to often in this world "victims" do some pretty stupid things that get themselves in trouble. It's a sad reality.
Click to expand...
No one makes anyone do anything. The only person responsible for our actions is us.

I don't give a flying **** if a president said, "Come on you scum bag ****wad AQ. Come and show us what you've got. I double dog dare you." The only person responsible for what AQ does in return is AQ.
 
rivrrat said:
No one makes anyone do anything. The only person responsible for our actions is us.

I don't give a flying **** if a president said, "Come on you scum bag ****wad AQ. Come and show us what you've got. I double dog dare you." The only person responsible for what AQ does in return is AQ.
Click to expand...




Sure, but that doesn't matter to those who get killed in retaliation in your scenario.


No we don't blame rape victims, but if you saunter down a dark alley somewhere highly seedy, acting all drunk in a wicked weasle bikini, no you are not to blame, but you are a dumbass who made some very very poor choices. Choices she must be responsible for if she is going to learn from thier mistake.


Who's the "victim" here any way? Clinton? or the US?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Sure, but that doesn't matter to those who get killed in retaliation in your scenario.


No we don't blame rape victims, but if you saunter down a dark alley somewhere highly seedy, acting all drunk in a wicked weasle bikini, no you are not to blame, but you are a dumbass who made some very very poor choices. Choices she must be responsible for if she is going to learn from thier mistake.


Who's the "victim" here any way? Clinton? or the US?
Click to expand...

People all over the world are victims of AQ.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
And if we had acted instead of lobbing a cruise missile or two?
Click to expand...

I imagine they would still be. Possibly even more, who knows? You can only speculate about the results of actions that did not take place. A more deadly retaliation from us could provoke more people to join his cause, making his army grow in numbers and resolve. Who knows? What they did in retaliation would still be their responsibility though.

What we do know is what DID happen. And what DID happen is no one's fault but AQ.
 
rivrrat said:
I imagine they would still be. Possibly even more, who knows? You can only speculate about the results of actions that did not take place. A more deadly retaliation from us could provoke more people to join his cause, making his army grow in numbers and resolve. Who knows? What they did in retaliation would still be their responsibility though.

What we do know is what DID happen. And what DID happen is no one's fault but AQ.
Click to expand...




I disagree, it was the fault of at least 3 administrations and thier failure to recognize a gathering threat.
 
misterman said:
What exactly should we have done? What target(s), what action?
Click to expand...




The "What if" game is pointless and ads nothing to the conversation. The topic is how our lack of doing anything significant emboldened this enemy.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
The "What if" game is pointless and ads nothing to the conversation. The topic is how our lack of doing anything significant emboldened this enemy.
Click to expand...

Bull****.

If you think some other action should have been taken, tell us what it was. What exactly should Clinton have done that was better than what he did? If you can't answer that, you have no argument.
 
misterman said:
Bull****.

If you think some other action should have been taken, tell us what it was. What exactly should Clinton have done that was better than what he did? If you can't answer that, you have no argument.
Click to expand...



right, ok then, you keep on with this nonsense. :roll:



What should Bush have done exactly, after 911. see this is why you FAIL
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
What should Bush have done exactly, after 911. see this is why you FAIL
Click to expand...

I don't fail. I'll answer the question if you really want me to. Can you answer the question about what Clinton should have done?

You said his response was inadequate. So what should have done? If you don't know, you can't criticize him.

For once could you just answer a question instead of yelling and screaming and then blaming it all on me?
 
misterman said:
I don't fail. I'll answer the question if you really want me to. Can you answer the question about what Clinton should have done?
Click to expand...


I don't care if you do. And I don't think you can, because its speculation.


You said his response was inadequate. So what should have done? If you don't know, you can't criticize him.
Click to expand...


Sure I can, watch, he should have done more than lob a cruise missile at an aspirin factory, There see? I did it. :thumbs:



For once could you just answer a question instead of yelling and screaming and then blaming it all on me?
Click to expand...


Not doing anything of the sort. No wait, I am laughing at you though. :shrug:




Your red herring has no intellectual value, your crying about me pointing out what AQ's apparent position on Clintons responses was, yet you want to play games to not take responsibility for democrat failures.


I can't help ya.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Sure I can, watch, he should have done more than lob a cruise missile at an aspirin factory,
Click to expand...

Lame. You're just restating the empty criticism.

It's not a red herring, it's a perfectly fair question. If you can't think of any possible thing he should have done, how can you criticize him? At least come up with some alternatives.

(The usual extraneous crap ignored.)
 
misterman said:
Lame. You're just restating the empty criticism.

It's not a red herring, it's a perfectly fair question. If you can't think of any possible thing he should have done, how can you criticize him? At least come up with some alternatives.

(The usual extraneous crap ignored.)
Click to expand...






Yup, done with you. Your boring attempts at debate is no longer of interest. Sorry, you FAILED
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Yup, done with you. Your boring attempts at debate is no longer of interest. Sorry, you FAILED
Click to expand...

Yep, every time I force you to actually think, and back up your arguments, you throw a tantrum and run away.

Anyone else out there with intellectual credibility have an answer? What should Clinton have done instead?
 
misterman said:
Yep, every time I force you to actually think, and back up your arguments, you throw a tantrum and run away.

Anyone else out there with intellectual credibility have an answer? What should Clinton have done instead?
Click to expand...





Tantrum? Actually I simply did not want to lower the intellectual content of this thread by responding to your nonsensical typical whiny drivel.


It is irrellevant as to what I, you or anyone else thinks we should have done. The point is AQ thought what we had done specifically Clintons responses, were so weak it emboldenend them.


Why do you avoid addressing this altogether? Could it be perhaps you can't?


Please try to follow the topic and not your silly little games chief. Thanks.
 
I thought you were done with me. I'm done with you.

Anyone else have an answer? What should Clinton have done?
 
misterman said:
I thought you were done with me. I'm done with you.

Anyone else have an answer? What should Clinton have done?
Click to expand...




What does "what clinton should have done" have to do with the topic of this thread. Perhaps you should start one on that topic if you want to discuss.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom