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Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

Zyphlin said:
First, I'd gladly dare anyone on this forum to tell me I was not a critic of Bush. Sorry, but you refugee's coming over from other places acting as if you know jack **** of what was said about Bush during the Bush years by INDIVIDUALS on this forum is frankly that, BS. Bail outs, Perscription Drug, nation building, No Child Left Behind, immigration, a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage...Bush pissed me off a ton.
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Let me be clear. My attacks on the tea party movement are not addressed to any individual person. They are general comments about the movement as a whole. So my comments may or not apply to any one person, be it you or any supporter on this thread.

On the whole the movement is nothing more than hypocritical, white bread Republicans who are whining about getting killed in the last election. I acknowledge it does apply to everyone, however. I've been screaming about big government in all its forms (right and left) for going on 10 years on numerous forums. So I know a bunch of hyporcrites when I see them. And tea parties are teaming with them. 9 out of 10 supported big government for decades and fully supported W setting all sorts of new records for big, expensive, intrusive government based on borrowing trillions. So, yes, I laugh at them openly.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Oh really? I guess that means you've missed my posts about how disappointed I am that obama hasn't dismantled the torture camps in Gitmo and/or prosecuted those involved, or the posts about my frustration that don't ask/don't tell hasn't been overturned, or my posts expressing frustration that the Patriot act hasn't been dismantled.

In other words, Zyph, you see what you want to see, because it's damn sure that I haven't been licking Obama's balls, either.

beyond that, you seem kinda tense and defensive. What's that about?

If you were there, great. but I strongly suspect that the majority of teabaggers weren't, and are simply rabidly partisan Republicans.

the which is substantiated by the statistics from the OP. ;)
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Why would people who want to put thier balls on the mouth foaming teabagees mouth, be at a tea party convention? :ssst:
 
stekim said:
It's the age old Republican lie. They are not against big government or big spending. That is a proven fact at this point. They are against spending if it's done by Democrats. They are against "big government" if the bill is a Democratic one. That's why I'm a Libertarian. Republicans sold idiots a bill of goods. And yes, the tea baggers are mostly Republicans. That's why I don't believe any part of it sincere.
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Actually many of us are actual libertarians, and not whiny so called "libertarian" complainers. :shrug:


It's the balls in the mouth mentality, that the teabagees have, that make them, even the so called "libertarian" ones blind to a grass roots movement, that fowards Libertarian Ideals..... basically Cutting off the nose to spite the face, though that would make the balls rest much easier on the face I suppose. :shrug:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Oh really? I guess that means you've missed my posts about how disappointed I am that obama hasn't dismantled the torture camps in Gitmo and/or prosecuted those involved, or the posts about my frustration that don't ask/don't tell hasn't been overturned, or my posts expressing frustration that the Patriot act hasn't been dismantled.
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I've seen yours about YOUR feeling.

I've seen next to nothing with you making up derogatory terms for those in the anti-war movement, criticizing other members and other groups on this forum for not doing like you, etc.

They are doing the exact same type of "hypocritical" thing that you're accusing the Tea partiers of doing, simply in reverse, but you do not spend nearly the same amount of time on them.

I don't know Catz, are you just a hypocrite that's only making big noise about groups you dislike and the groups you actually side with you don't rant about as much? Wow, that seems so hugely hypocritical of you catz. You should go about and make a nickname for yourself that people can use derogatorily towards you like "tea baggers" since if someone's a hypocrite and does something more for one group than another group despite them being relatively equal they're worthy of non-stop insulting.

I mean, going by your twisted logic on this point, that seems to be the point.

You rail, CONSTANTLY, against the tea partiers to the point of continually stopping to the level of a "libtard" esque childish slur. Yet you next to never speak about the hypocrisy of the anti-war movement in the country.

In other words, Zyph, you see what you want to see, because it's damn sure that I haven't been licking Obama's balls, either.
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No, you haven't been an Obama balls licker. You've been a solidly left leaning moderate that likes much of what he's doing and dislikes other portions of it strongly, who goes out of her way continually and relentlessly to slander, insult, and distort one group she dislikes while continually and repeatedly gives a pass to another group that you identify more with.

Essentially, you do the exact same thing you accuse the Tea Partiers of doing.

beyond that, you seem kinda tense and defensive. What's that about?
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I'm tired of dealing with a bunch of childish kindergardeners that can't have a legitimate political discussion without acting like 5 year olds calling each other doo doo heads. I'm tired of seeing otherwise reasonable people look like immature fools. And I'm tired of watching people hypocritically screaming continually about hypocracy.

If you were there, great. but I strongly suspect that the majority of teabaggers weren't, and are simply rabidly partisan Republicans.
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I don't know, perhaps go to a college campus, I know tea bagging happens often with the immature drunk freshmen. I'm sure you could volunteer to help them engage in it while you're taking your study.

However, if you're speaking of the Tea partiers, I would strongly suggest you're absolutely wrong. Considering recent other polls it appears close to 50% aren't even Republicans (Independents, Libertarians and Democrats). So what you're saying is that the 50% of Republicans that make up the Tea Party movement needs to be almost ENTIRELY of the rabidly partisan Republican types to be able to legitimately say they make up a "majority" of them. That simply strains credibility and logic to assume that essentially EVERY republican identifying Tea Party member MUST be a hyper partisan Republican that NEVER had issues with what Bush did.

Yes, a large portion of them likely didn't say anything loudly about Bush. A portion of that group likely had issues with Bush but didn't make a huge deal out of them for the reasons I stated above (human nature, political intelligence, etc). To use that as a reason to lambast them continually is hypocritical in and of itself unless you're lambasting humanity as a whole for every time they are more apt to speak more softly about someone not close to them doing something than they would someone they dislike doing the same thing only worse. However to claim is a majority doesn't jive with reality of the variety of polling information or common logic.

the which is substantiated by the statistics from the OP. ;)
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Actually, its NOT substantiated by the statistics of the OP. But nice slant.

Your OP in no way states that the majority of Tea Partiers are the "Hyper Partisan" type republicans or the extreme republicans or the staunch republicans. Simply that the majority "lean" republican, which in no way denotes anywhere near the severity of their blind following as you attempt to suggest with no evidence other than pointing to an OP that doesn't provide any evidence.

Second, the OP again is not necessarily checking the party affiliation of the Tea Parties but the leans of the regions that their data basing of Tea Party members are most often appear in. However correlation does not mean causation. Tea Parties being large in Republican leaning areas could mean it could be all Republicans, or it could mean there's a larger base for the sentinment to grow and thus has more oppertunity to expand out to others.

Third, you can't look at polls in a vacuum nor have you shown ANY reason at all that your suggested poll is somehow concrete while the previous poll denoting the amount of self identified Tea Partiers that were not Republicans is somehow wrong. Taking them both together it appears that the majority of Tea Partiers lean republican, something that's not going to shock anyone, however shows that it reaches across to independents, some democrats, big L libertarians, and moderate conservatives as well.

Hardly a "majority" of "hyper partisan republicans" who likely never voiced issues with George Bush.


You, and Stekim, both are hypocrites, just as much as you claim the Tea Partiers are. You lambast them but give other groups no where near your vitriol and attention in your postings. You bash tea partiers for doing actions, being louder when the other side is in power and being louder when the other side is doing the things you dislike WORSE than your guy was doing it, that both parties have done for decades upon decades yet you previously almost never and currently almost never lambast others for their actions of it currently or in the past. You put them on the spit for "hypocrisy" that is present in every human being.

Tell me Catz, lets be honest here...

You've never excused a flaw in a friend that you're criticized in an aquaintence or someone you didn't like?

You've never given a freind or family member more rope when it came to a situation of trust then you've given someone you barely knew or disliked?

You've never perhaps as a sports fan complained about another teams actions or choices but complained FAR less and quieter when your team did something akin to it?

You've never railed about Parents needing to take better care and pay more attention to their children yet find that at times you don't do a 100% perfect job of it yourself?

You've never complained loudly about the hypocricy or the wrongness of one group but given a pass or complained much less about another group that did something arguably similar?

I can say, with 100% certainty, if you answer yes to everyone of those you're a bold faced pathetic liar just as I'd say to someone that says they've never lied before in their life. It's human nature to be more understanding, more forgiving, less vocal, more compassionate, more lienent, with those that are closer to you in some fashion. This does not change in politics, and especially so when you add in political strategy into it.

Simply becasue people express their anger and disagreement in two different ways does not necessarily mean its not there, nor should it be expected that their anger and disagreement will always occur EXACTLY the same in EVERY situation because every situation is not the same.

You and Stekim put out this bull**** notion and expect it to be considered factually 100% unquestioanbly correct that the only difference now is that its a Democrat in office and the republicans lost.

Bull****, utter bull****.

Yes, a Democrat being the one in office DOES play into it (just as a Republican being in office played into it previously for Democrats). You don't completely torpedo your own side when rather than fixing anything it'll make it WORSE because its just going to let the other guy get in which will do everything you're disliking about your guy PLUS other stuff you dislike.

However....

For all of Bush's spending, Obama's is arguably larger.

For all of Bush's entitlement, Obama's was larger.

For all of the Patriot Acts slippery slope, the Health Care Plans slippery slope is arguably larger.

For all Bush's spending that he did the large majority of it was in regards to wars, something while YOU may disagree with many (and not just "hyper partisan republicans") look at as at least being identifable in the Constitution (in regards to defense) as being something at least in the legitimate perview of the government. While YOU may disagree, there is a legitimate and reasonable belief there...JUST as much, if not more, as the belief that Health Care is legitimate government spending per the constitution.

For all Bush's fiscal issues he did cut taxes, not with class warefare but across the board. Obama's flat out stated he plans on pushing for part of the Bush tax cuts to expire and has been talking about permanent tax increases while using smoke screens of temporary rebates to distract.

For all his debt running up, it took 8 years for Bush to do what Obama's likely to do in 2 years.

For all the cries of "Obama has a bad economy to contend with" its equally a legitimate counter to go "Bush had to deal with the reality of 9/11"

The situations are not 100% the same and there are a number of legitimate reasons why people who were either quietly unhappy with Bush or dealing with "the lesser of two evils" under Bush are now speaking out far louder when they're dealing with, what they see, as the "Eviler of two evils" and who is doing in their mind every bad thing that Bush did, only on steroids, and is adding Sprinkles of more bad things on top of it all.
 
Excellent Post Zyph, this adds to Goshen's and CPwill's manifesto of the "tea party for DP dummies." :mrgreen:
 
Zyphlin said:
I've seen next to nothing with you making up derogatory terms for those in the anti-war movement, criticizing other members and other groups on this forum for not doing like you, etc.
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That's because I did it on two other forums: Usmessageboard.com and politicalforum.com. You're welcome to search, since this seems to matter to you so much: my username there was catzmeow.

I don't know Catz, are you just a hypocrite that's only making big noise about groups you dislike and the groups you actually side with you don't rant about as much? Wow, that seems so hugely hypocritical of you catz. You should go about and make a nickname for yourself that people can use derogatorily towards you like "tea baggers" since if someone's a hypocrite and does something more for one group than another group despite them being relatively equal they're worthy of non-stop insulting.
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Feel free to make up a derogatory nickname for me. How about ***** Smell? Would that make you feel better? Feel free to call me that as often as you wish. You clearly have way more emotion wrapped up in this issue than I do, and I've apparently become the locus for it.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in performing therapy today. ;)

As a movement, I consider the Tea Party an inherently hypocritical one, made up of whiny, disenfranchised and pissed off white bread Republicans who didn't care about spending when Bush was doing it, and only now have discovered a conscience about small governent.

In comparison, I've been a blue dog democrat for the past 8 years. I've ALWAYS believed in small government, reducing government spending, cutting entitlements, and being fiscally responsible. I believe that government is not a monolithic entity, but an arm of the people, entasked with doing the work that we assign them.

I'm not going to call YOU a hypocrite, because you are not the Tea Party. You're an individual who conjoins with them on some issues, and is separate on others. You are not responsible for the rampant hypocrisy, simply because your views are congruent with many of theirs.

For you to view an attack on the Tea Party, as a movement, as a personal assault engendering this kind of emotionalism is simply absurd.

Maybe you should take a break and have a cup of tea or something.
 
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I'm not just A locus(t). I'm their queen.

locust.jpg
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Actually many of us are actual libertarians, and not whiny so called "libertarian" complainers. :shrug:
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Some of you are. "Many" might be pushing it. The teabaggers in Georgia all seem to have W and Palin stickers on their SUV's. But like I said above, you personally may be different. I know if you looked at my posts in 2005 you would see I was a bit ahead of the tea party curve. I never bought the big lie like so many others did. Others who are now pretending they dislike "big government". Yeah, OK.
 
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stekim said:
Some of you are. "Many" might be pushing it. The teabaggers in Georgia all seem to have W and Palin stickers on their SUV's. But like I said above, you personally may be different. I know if you looked at my posts in 2005 you would see I was a bit ahead of the tea party curve. I never bought the big lie like so many others did. Others who are now pretending they dislike "big government". Yeah, OK.
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Wow. Am I awesome or what?
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No, you are not awesome........ you just come across as a foul mouthed bigot.
 
You, and Stekim, both are hypocrites, just as much as you claim the Tea Partiers are. You lambast them but give other groups no where near your vitriol and attention in your postings.
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You obviously have not read many of my posts. Which makes sense given they are on another board. I lambaste tons of groups. Honest.

You bash tea partiers for doing actions, being louder when the other side is in power and being louder when the other side is doing the things you dislike WORSE than your guy was doing it, that both parties have done for decades upon decades yet you previously almost never and currently almost never lambast others for their actions of it currently or in the past. You put them on the spit for "hypocrisy" that is present in every human being.
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So calling a hypocrite a hypocrite somehow makes me a bad person? Seems to me one is either for limited government or one is not. Yet so many in the movement supported W, who clearly ended his reign as the single biggest government President in the history of the Republic. There is hypocrisy, my friend, then there is fucking hypocrisy.
 
Crunch said:
No, you are not awesome........ you just come across as a foul mouthed bigot.
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Thanks! It's good to see all my hard work is paying off.
 
stekim said:
Some of you are. "Many" might be pushing it. The teabaggers in Georgia all seem to have W and Palin stickers on their SUV's. But like I said above, you personally may be different. I know if you looked at my posts in 2005 you would see I was a bit ahead of the tea party curve. I never bought the big lie like so many others did. Others who are now pretending they dislike "big government". Yeah, OK.
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I cant speak to the vulgar balls in the mouth anecdites but i stand by what i say. This group embodies many of the ideals us libertarians hold dear. You being a big mouthed schillfor the left wing kooks does what for us libertarians?

Nothing. Are you going to claim next you have been to a tea party rally? So many if the tebagged ball sucking crowd here has done so already. Heck they apparently have been to more than us tea party folk.



Btw. Palim is not the tea party. She is an opportunist using this grass roots movement for her ow. Gain. :shrug:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
:lol:nice hit piece...



BREAKING NEWS, TEA PARTY LEANS REPUBLICAN!!!!! :lamo
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If you'd have the courage to actually read it, you'd know the piece goes a lot deeper then that.

Furthermore, the Politco piece pretty much flushes the MSM left-leaning bias notion down the toilet.

Pew's Project for Excellence in Journalism, which tracks media reports, found that the tea parties consumed a steady measure of news for most of this year before exploding during tax week to compete with the Icelandic volcano for attention and outstripping health care with 6% of all media reports that week.
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That's right, Rev, the Teabrains have become media darlings.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I cant speak to the vulgar balls in the mouth anecdites but i stand by what i say. This group embodies many of the ideals us libertarians hold dear. You being a big mouthed schillfor the left wing kooks does what for us libertarians?
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Actually, you hit upon one of my primary points. Given their past (non) actions I don't believe for a second they embody any of the ideals Libertarians hold dear. Yes, Virginia, they are full of crap. Like I said before, they don't like big government unless they are in charge of it. Then it's fine. That's what their past (non)actions scream. And that's why I don't take them seriously.

Nothing. Are you going to claim next you have been to a tea party rally? So many if the tebagged ball sucking crowd here has done so already. Heck they apparently have been to more than us tea party folk.
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Hell no. I can't stand being around raging hypocrites.

Btw. Palim is not the tea party. She is an opportunist using this grass roots movement for her ow. Gain. :shrug:
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I know she's not. She's just a big government Republican. So she has a lot in common with the tea party crowd.
 
stekim said:
Actually, you hit upon one of my primary points. Given their past (non) actions I don't believe for a second they embody any of the ideals Libertarians hold dear. Yes, Virginia, they are full of crap. Like I said before, they don't like big government unless they are in charge of it. Then it's fine. That's what their past (non)actions scream. And that's why I don't take them seriously.
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So how long do they need to be outspoken, before you say they are legit? :roll:



Your strawman speculation notwithstanding of course.



Hell no. I can't stand being around raging hypocrites.
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Nah you just want to whine about everyone it seems. :shrug:



I know she's not. She's just a big government Republican. So she has a lot in common with the tea party crowd.
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The tea party is not a big government crowd. Please lets not dumb this down any more than you all already have. :roll:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So how long do they need to be outspoken, before you say they are legit? :roll:
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Well, gosh, let's see. Does the fact they waited 30 years mean anything? It does to me. It screams hypocrisy. Even more so when you consider the Bush II years. Seems to me the "small government" crowd would have spoken up at some point. But nope. It's was all good. It's not a matter of how long you are outspoken. It's a matter of WHEN. And their WHEN is laughable.

Nah you just want to whine about everyone it seems. :shrug:
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Actually, as a point of order, it's the teabaggers whining, not me.


The tea party is not a big government crowd. Please lets not dumb this down any more than you all already have. :roll:
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Sure they aren't. All those W stickers are just on the cars by accident I suppose. And all the GOP big government speakers are mere coincidence, right? How gullible are you?
 
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stekim said:
Well, gosh, let's see. Does the fact they waited 30 years mean anything? It does to me. It screams hypocrisy. Even more so when you consider the Bush II years. Seems to me the "small government" crowd would have spoken up at some point. But nope. It's was all good. It's not a matter of how long you are outspoken. It's a matter of WHEN. And their WHEN is laughable.
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Then you weren't paying attention. Heck even sean hannity and Limbaugh would critisize Bush on his drunken sailor spending. :shrug:



Actually, as a point of order, it's the teabaggers whining, not me.
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Actually its the mouth foaming balls in the mouth teabagged, that is whining....


Here is where you're a hypocrite..... We are "whinng" about the need for smaller government, less taxes, and more accountable reps.....


Your a supposed libertarian whining about us "whining" about things you are supposed to be about.


You sir, are aprofessional complainer.




Sure they aren't. All those W stickers are just on the cars by accident I suppose. And all the GOP big government speakers are mere coincidence, right? How gullible are you?
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All of those "GOP big Government" speakers are a by product of the times. It was not nor was it part of the grass roots movement. It is opportunists trying to co-opt the tea party.


How much daily Kos you been reading? :lamo
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Then you weren't paying attention. Heck even sean hannity and Limbaugh would critisize Bush on his drunken sailor spending. :shrug:
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While voting for him. Just another example of what I'm talking about! Thanks. Hannity and Rush are part of the problem. They help convince people to vote the clowns in office.

Here is where you're a hypocrite..... We are "whinng" about the need for smaller government, less taxes, and more accountable reps.....
Your a supposed libertarian whining about us "whining" about things you are supposed to be about.
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Once again you fail to see the point even though I've said it numerous times. Based on their past non-action I don't believe them. I'm not a hypocrite in the least. If I thought they were honest instead of lying hypocrites I would jump on board.

Let me repeat so you get it this time: I don't believe them. I don't think they are for smaller government. So how can I support them? THAT would make me a hypocrite. Not supporting them actually makes me the opposite.

All of those "GOP big Government" speakers are a by product of the times. It was not nor was it part of the grass roots movement. It is opportunists trying to co-opt the tea party.
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So you guys show up to hear them anyway? Interesting. And yet you don't see why so many don't take you seriously. How can we?
 
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Ah, I get the problem.

See, you have extreme, high in the sky, unable to deal with reality libertarian types that like to act like they're above the frey, smarter then everyone else who are simply "sheeple", and are holier than thou all so they can act like arrogant pompous know it alls by being "so pure", simply because they realize...even if its in the deep dark recesses of their brain...their ideology is just as extremist as the extreme left or the extreme right with the only difference is they have an even smaller chance of it ever actually being put into power in this country. As such they can lie to themselves about how much smarter and better they are than everyone else while getting to insult everyone and anyone because they deep down know their people are never going to be in power so are never actually going to have to deal with anything out of the theoritical realm.

Because of that, anyone that actuall deals with the reality in this country and the reality that has been present for around two centuries now can be found, in some way shape or form, as hypocritical and worthy of condemation and scorn for not striving for the most "pure" form of whatever they're advocating (of course "pure" as defined by the haughty arrogant libertarian types in question).

Thus the arrogant up their own ass libertarian types can pump up their own fragile child like ego by being able to look at the vast majority of people that live in this strange thing called "reality" and realize that you're never going to have a perfect candidate and so at times you have to figure what's most important to you and what's the bigger gamble or the bigger chance of doing good for the country rather than simply stick to pure and complete ideological extremism. Those people that dwell in that horrible place called "reality" deserve scorn, if for no other reason than the help the poor libertarian keep his grasp of their exceedingly needy superiority complex.

Naturally I'm not talking about any specific ones, this is just a generalized trait I've noticed in the extreme ideological wing of the Libertarian party and movement over the years that would explain the "hypocritical" comments. It'd explain it for moderates and centrists too who often times are simply spineless wimps who can't take a side or don't want to admit to a side, or usually simply like to bitch, whine, moan, complain, and attack and thus acting "moderate" allows them to do it the most to everyone while never having to take a strong stand and always being able to worm out of things by playing the neutrality card.

Again, I'm of course not talking about specifics, just in general here about what I've seen. It just seems to explain the hypocrisy BS being levied on the Republicans leaning people of the Tea Party (of which makes up just a shade over HALF of the entire movement) but barely levied on anyone else, at any other time, since historically at least since WWII NEITHER party condemns or criticizes loudly and in large numbers their side when they are in power for doing things they dislike but rather tend to do it quietly while being louder when its the opposing party doing it for a variety of political and human nature reasons.

Yes, silly me, it is only the great and wonderous extremist libertarian and "I'm always neutral so I can bitch non stop" moderates/centrists that are immune to the dreaded hypocritical label, of which one could NEVER place on them.

Frankly I think its ridiculous to get upset or act like children about Republicans being louder about things when a Democrat is in office and doing worse and bigger things (to their ideology) than the Republican before them, nor do I think its idiotic not to get upset about Democrats suddenly shutting up and stopping their huge rallies about the War or Gitmo or Immigration. This is the nature of politics, this is reality, this is political strategy, this is human nature.

If for a second I thought that all or even most Republicans loved everything Bush did and never criticized him, then I'd agree. But I saw some of the most die hard republicans on this site express their displeasure with some of what Bush did. With the same vitriol or anger? No, but that's expected. Likewise, if for a second I thought that all or even most Democrats loved everything Obama did and never criticized him, then I'd agree as well. However I still see some of them now speaking out when Obama does things they disliked that Bush did, just not as loud or as angry or as rhetoric filled. And I see both sides much more apt to rationalize why its okay when their side does it. However I don't get up in arms, see a need to call names, or make a giant deal out of people acting like HUMANS and doing what is done both in politics and outside of it by every single person at some point in their life.
 
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