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Thread: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    The tea party movement has attractive rhetorical slogans about reducing the size of government, alongside effectively no intentions of actually doing so. Their focus is on enforcing certain ideas about morality that they have, even if they would involve an expansion of statism.

    Consider their promotion of authoritarian policy to restrict illegal immigration. Construction, maintenance, and active patrol of a massive border fence between the United States and Mexico would involve a similarly massive financial expenditure, likely larger than that of decriminalizing border crossing. The social conservatives of the tea party movement don't care, as their concern is with what they perceive about the immorality of "rewarding lawbreakers." As I've quoted from Lakoff previously:

    Within Strict Father morality, illegal immigrants are seen as lawbreakers ("illegals") who should be punished...From the perspective of the Nation As Family metaphor, illegal immigrants are not citizens, hence they are not children in our family. To be expected to provide food, housing, and health care for illegal immigrants is like being expected to feed, house, and care for other children in the neighborhood who are coming into our house without permission. They weren't invited, they have no business being here, and we have no responsibility to take care of them.
    Many people would sooner harshly deal with the "neighbor children" that are "trespassing" on their property and adopt draconian security measures to prevent them from doing so even if letting them in would ultimately cost less.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, I would give Reagan a pass, since his spending, mostly on the military, was designed to bankrupt the Soviet economy, since, in theory, they would be unable to keep up. The theory held, and the USSR collapsed, thus making the world a little safer.
    The Soviet economy had been declining since the 1970s, which I attribute to fundamental defects of Communism. Central planning may have produced behemoth gains at some point, and we cannot sneeze at the actual economic record of the USSR during the fifties and sixties, but party/state dictatorship was simply too authoritarian to effectively manage an increasingly educated population and their increased demands for liberty in the political sphere and the workplace. The union didn't even "collapse," properly speaking. It was dismantled by a party/state elite that quickly became the party/state elite in the Russian Federation, even as the majority of Soviet citizens favored its preservation in some form. Not much to attribute to Reagan; plenty to attribute to the failures of Leninist dictatorship.

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Its kinda hard to say with a straight face that a movement has no electoral power when no national elections have take place after the creation of said movement.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I believe that there are legitimate aspects to the Tea Party, but as long as they support laws like these, that are being considered in Oklahoma, then they can never be referred to as a movement that wants to get the government out of health care.
    Great Story Dana. It was wonderful to see all the statements of how the Tea Party pushed for the legislation, the Tea Party had rallies for the legislation, the Tea Party's lobbied their representitives to pass it.

    ....

    Oh wait, the story didn't say a single thing about the Tea Parties.



    You got the Tin man over there typing with you too?

    As I said before, you may have a local tea party (likely put together by a person leaning socially conservative) supporting it or people who are part of the movement supporting it, but that is not the Tea Party as an over arching movement pushing it.

    Social Conservatives are part of the movement. So are libertarians. So are paleocons. So are centrists. So are democrats. So are moderates.

    If the democrat and centrist contingent were for Gay Marriage being legalized, with that term, across the United States does that mean the "Tea Party" supports it?

    No.

    No more than if some libertarians in the anti-war movement magically meant that the anti-war movement was anti-gun control.

    Your problem isn't with the Tea Parties, you're just projecting your bigger issue onto them, which is you want to do to Social Conservatives what they've done to Libertarians for the past 10 years...ignore you and kick you to the curb saying "your not that important". And because the Tea Party, which began more libertarian but has became literally all inclusive while still actually holding a fiscal and governmental conservative focus, has actually managed to bring groups together rather than ostrocize the group of conservative you hate and are upset with so much you find it something that must be beaten down.

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    First, I'd gladly dare anyone on this forum to tell me I was not a critic of Bush. Sorry, but you refugee's coming over from other places acting as if you know jack **** of what was said about Bush during the Bush years by INDIVIDUALS on this forum is frankly that, BS. Bail outs, Perscription Drug, nation building, No Child Left Behind, immigration, a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage...Bush pissed me off a ton.

    Second, Tea Parties started in 2007, yes they picked up steam later but they are not some new thing born of the Obama Presidency.

    Third, I call absolute bull**** on this idiotic hollier than thou attitude. Its a bunch of people who are sitting on their high horse that I garauntee have done the same thing in some portion of their life. Natural human nature causes people to generally group up. Politically even if you don't take sides of a party "moderates" or "Independents" or "Centrists" will still segregate, grabbing onto their ideological equals in hopes of forming a difference between "Us" and "them". This is present in social circles (geeks, preps, jocks, brains, etc), this is present in many work places (with the difference forming between management and the employees), in sports (our team vs your team), and throughout society. Its the way the Dallas Cowboys could hate TO when he spiked the ball in the middle of the Star but can explain it away when he's on their team. Its how Green Bay fans could think Favre is a god amongst men but is an absolute diva now when in reality he's doing the same thing he's done for almost a decade.

    Its not just then too. Families and friends do this always. Everyone likely has some friend that has some kind of jackass trait that you accept or maybe even laugh about that if it was some random person, or someone you disliked, showing that trait would cause you to get up in arms. If your best friend owes you $10 and keeps forgetting about it I garauntee you all react different than if some jackass at work guilted you into lending them $20 and they are the ones stiffing you.

    So yes, as SHOCKING as I'm sure it is to some of you...primarily because you're being pathetic hypocrites for the sake of attacking the people you dislike (Funny, Catz, I don't see you posting non-stop attacking the massively Anti-War left who were protesting all the time during Bush but are being relatively quiet when Obama's doing much the same things as him. God Catz, how DARE you act differently to one group than the other)...human nature is present and people are more likely to be more amped up, more interested, when they feel like they have less control and power.

    Fourth, which brings us to the political science aspect of it. Traditionally both sides have always shown us that the people OUT of power are going to be the loudest complainers and those IN power are going to complain the least. Why? Political human nature shows that when "your team" is in power people who are mildly interested in politics are more likely to take a detached stance because their side is in power so they figure they're doing fine. Meanwhile those out of power are generally more engaged when it comes to their mildly interested population because you have that underdog, put upon, helpless feeling that spurs it. Which, with that taking care of the mildly interested, you then have the people that are actually relatively learned about Politics. That also has a Political Science motivation to it. Much like in Sports, you keep your troubles in house as best as possible to not give the other side an advantage. Again, both sides routinely do this. When you're in power you're not likely going to be doing demonstrations or making huge scenes about specific issues. Why? Because that helps the other side get elected and while you dislike 4 out of the 10 things your guy is doing you're going to dislike 9 out of 10 things the OTHER guy is going to do (and that 9 is going to include those 4 that your guys doing). So instead you try to send the message then in a less public way. Its the same reason you're not seeing huge immigration rallies getting tons of coverage, huge anti-war rallies getting tons of coverage, etc now that you saw continuously for years during the Bush Administration.

    So yes, those hypocritical vile tea baggers are ****ing human and are prone to typical political trends. They should all be ignored (while we, the obviously more civilized "moderates", stand above the frey...bitching and complaining all the time which is half the reason we choose moderate so that we can always just bitch so we always feel vicitimized...while only commenting on these type of things when it helps the side we ACTUALLY lean to).

    And finally, its a scope issue. Obama's Bail Out was MUCH larger than Bush's. Obama's Health Care is MUCH larger than Perscription Drug. Bush passed major tax cuts across the board, Obama's planning on letting tax cuts fall off the board and already looking at raising various ones. Bush ran up the debt a good bit, Obama is going to surpass Bush's 8 years total in his first two years.

    When a friend jokingly punches you in the arm when you're not expecting it you're going to get annoyed at him and have a few words. When that douche bag that sits across the bar comes over and slugs you across the jaw you're probably going to start swinging.

    I guess that makes you a hypocrite.


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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    (Funny, Catz, I don't see you posting non-stop attacking the massively Anti-War left who were protesting all the time during Bush but are being relatively quiet when Obama's doing much the same things as him. God Catz, how DARE you act differently to one group than the other)...human nature is present and people are more likely to be more amped up, more interested, when they feel like they have less control and power.
    Oh really? I guess that means you've missed my posts about how disappointed I am that obama hasn't dismantled the torture camps in Gitmo and/or prosecuted those involved, or the posts about my frustration that don't ask/don't tell hasn't been overturned, or my posts expressing frustration that the Patriot act hasn't been dismantled.

    In other words, Zyph, you see what you want to see, because it's damn sure that I haven't been licking Obama's balls, either.

    beyond that, you seem kinda tense and defensive. What's that about?

    If you were there, great. but I strongly suspect that the majority of teabaggers weren't, and are simply rabidly partisan Republicans.

    the which is substantiated by the statistics from the OP.

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Tea Party = Republican.
    Its more like....Tea Party = Republican fringe.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, I'd gladly dare anyone on this forum to tell me I was not a critic of Bush. Sorry, but you refugee's coming over from other places acting as if you know jack **** of what was said about Bush during the Bush years by INDIVIDUALS on this forum is frankly that, BS. Bail outs, Perscription Drug, nation building, No Child Left Behind, immigration, a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage...Bush pissed me off a ton.
    Let me be clear. My attacks on the tea party movement are not addressed to any individual person. They are general comments about the movement as a whole. So my comments may or not apply to any one person, be it you or any supporter on this thread.

    On the whole the movement is nothing more than hypocritical, white bread Republicans who are whining about getting killed in the last election. I acknowledge it does apply to everyone, however. I've been screaming about big government in all its forms (right and left) for going on 10 years on numerous forums. So I know a bunch of hyporcrites when I see them. And tea parties are teaming with them. 9 out of 10 supported big government for decades and fully supported W setting all sorts of new records for big, expensive, intrusive government based on borrowing trillions. So, yes, I laugh at them openly.
    Last edited by stekim; 04-23-10 at 11:21 AM.
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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Oh really? I guess that means you've missed my posts about how disappointed I am that obama hasn't dismantled the torture camps in Gitmo and/or prosecuted those involved, or the posts about my frustration that don't ask/don't tell hasn't been overturned, or my posts expressing frustration that the Patriot act hasn't been dismantled.

    In other words, Zyph, you see what you want to see, because it's damn sure that I haven't been licking Obama's balls, either.

    beyond that, you seem kinda tense and defensive. What's that about?

    If you were there, great. but I strongly suspect that the majority of teabaggers weren't, and are simply rabidly partisan Republicans.

    the which is substantiated by the statistics from the OP.




    Why would people who want to put thier balls on the mouth foaming teabagees mouth, be at a tea party convention?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    It's the age old Republican lie. They are not against big government or big spending. That is a proven fact at this point. They are against spending if it's done by Democrats. They are against "big government" if the bill is a Democratic one. That's why I'm a Libertarian. Republicans sold idiots a bill of goods. And yes, the tea baggers are mostly Republicans. That's why I don't believe any part of it sincere.




    Actually many of us are actual libertarians, and not whiny so called "libertarian" complainers.


    It's the balls in the mouth mentality, that the teabagees have, that make them, even the so called "libertarian" ones blind to a grass roots movement, that fowards Libertarian Ideals..... basically Cutting off the nose to spite the face, though that would make the balls rest much easier on the face I suppose.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Media Exaggerate Tea Party's Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Why would people who want to put thier balls on the mouth foaming teabagees mouth, be at a tea party convention?
    Could you try that again, in English? It seems like the phrase teabag gets you all flustered and addlepated.

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