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Thread: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I agree. I have never said this means conservatism= racism. You need to stop saying that Democrat=liberal=racism.
    Never meant to imply that, but when people say that Democrats were conservative during racist years I will naturally assume they are trying to make the ideological connection. Democrats were never truly conservative, except for the states rights issue which they dropped well into the late 1800's.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Never meant to imply that, but when people say that Democrats were conservative during racist years I will naturally assume they are trying to make the ideological connection.
    You can't assume anything.

    Democrats were never truly conservative, .
    Yet they were conservative in pretty much every sense of the word, and described themselves as such.

    except for the states rights issue which they dropped well into the late 1800's
    And then promptly revived in the 1950s.

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You can't assume anything.



    Yet they were conservative in pretty much every sense of the word, and described themselves as such.


    And then promptly revived in the 1950s.
    Point 1) With the constant implications in the modern political age there are no other choices IMO 2) They weren't exactly fiscally conservative and sidestepped the constitution on multiple occasions, a true conservative would never do that. Notice I said a true conservative and not a Republican. 3) The fifties did not see a return to state's rights in the least, it saw a temporary slowdown in the regulatory push to be taken back up in the sixties and furthered into the seventies.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Point 1) With the constant implications in the modern political age there are no other choices
    Sorry, but you don't get to assume things. I don't do it with you, kindly don't do it to me or anyone else.

    It's funny how you say there are no other choices when you're taking the choice away in the first place.

    IMO 2) They weren't exactly fiscally conservative and sidestepped the constitution on multiple occasions, a true conservative would never do that.
    No true Scotsman, you mean?

    Notice I said a true conservative and not a Republican.
    Thank you!

    3) The fifties did not see a return to state's rights in the least,
    I meant the Southern Democrats revived it as a cause.

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sorry, but you don't get to assume things. I don't do it with you, kindly don't do it to me or anyone else.

    It's funny how you say there are no other choices when you're taking the choice away in the first place.
    Fair enough.




    I meant the Southern Democrats revived it as a cause.
    Only on certain niche issues though, which is problematic. Either states own the rights guaranteed in the constitution completely or not.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Only on certain niche issues though, which is problematic. Either states own the rights guaranteed in the constitution completely or not.
    You think civil rights, the granting of millions of people their full rights as citizens as promised in our Declaration of Independence after hundreds of years of slavery and abuse, is a "niche issue?"

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You think civil rights, the granting of millions of people their full rights as citizens as promised in our Declaration of Independence after hundreds of years of slavery and abuse, is a "niche issue?"
    Not in the truest sense of the word. What I mean in this particular instance is that the Dems in those days wanted the right to enforce racial codes specifically on the state/local levels but could have cared less about S.Security, and other programs, they were concerned about one singular issue being state/local level. This is why I used niche, similar to people who only voted based on their abortion stance, environment issues, etc. and throw out the rest of the politics as criteria. While the other singular issues are big F-ing deals(to quote the VP), they can cause secondary problems or ignorances when they become a singularity in campaigning.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Not in the truest sense of the word. What I mean in this particular instance is that the Dems in those days wanted the right to enforce racial codes specifically on the state/local levels but could have cared less about S.Security, and other programs, they were concerned about one singular issue being state/local level. This is why I used niche, similar to people who only voted based on their abortion stance, environment issues, etc. and throw out the rest of the politics as criteria. While the other singular issues are big F-ing deals(to quote the VP), they can cause secondary problems or ignorances when they become a singularity in campaigning.
    Are you sure about that? My understanding and quick research shows that they took plenty of conservative stances on things like SS and social programs too. And they sure as hell weren't pro-abortion either.

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are you sure about that? My understanding and quick research shows that they took plenty of conservative stances on things like SS and social programs too. And they sure as hell weren't pro-abortion either.
    I don't really see how any of the party's could have had a stance on abortion then, it was an example of niche issues that are important. With SS though, the Dems are the party that introduced it, don't see how they could be conservative towards it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Brutal attack on Republican fundraiser appears politically motivated

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't really see how any of the party's could have had a stance on abortion then, it was an example of niche issues that are important.
    But are you saying they would have supported abortion rights if it did become an issue?

    It did become one in 1973, and there were still more than a few Southern Democrats back then.

    With SS though, the Dems are the party that introduced it, don't see how they could be conservative towards it.
    How many times do I have to say this - the parties aren't monolithic, most of the southern Democrats were conservatives who often parted ways with their liberal counterparts in the North.

    Here's some more good history for you:

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_coalition]Conservative coalition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    The conservative coalition, in the United States, was an unofficial Congressional coalition bringing together the conservative majority of the Republican Party and the conservative, mostly Southern, minority of the Democratic Party. Aside from 1949 to 1951, it controlled the United States Congress from 1939 to 1961 and remained a potent force until the mid-1980s.

    History
    In 1936, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had won a second term in a landslide, sweeping all but two states over his Republican opponent, Alf Landon. For the 1937 session of Congress the Republicans would have only 17 Senators (out of 96 total) and 89 congressmen (out of a total of 431). Given his party's overwhelming majorities, Roosevelt decided he could overcome opposition to his liberal New Deal policies by the conservative justices of the U.S. Supreme Court, which had struck down many New Deal agencies as unconstitutional. Roosevelt proposed to expand the size of the court from nine to fifteen justices; he could then "pack" the court with six new justices who would support his policies.

    However, many conservative Southern Democrats strongly opposed the plan. Among their leaders were Senators Harry Byrd and Carter Glass of Virginia and Vice-President John Nance Garner of Texas. U.S. Senator Josiah Bailey (D-NC) released a "Conservative Manifesto" in December 1937.[1] "Give enterprise a chance, and I will give you the guarantees of a happy and prosperous America," Bailey said. The document called for a balanced federal budget, state's rights, and an end to labor union violence and coercion.[1] Over 100,000 copies were distributed and it marked a turning point in terms of congressional support for New Deal legislation.[1]

    Democratic opposition to Roosevelt's "court packing" Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937 was first led by coalition Democrat and House Judiciary Committee chairman Hatton W. Sumners. Sumners refused to endorse the bill, actively chopping it up within his committee in order to block the bill's chief effect of Supreme Court expansion. Finding such stiff opposition within the House, the administration arranged for the bill to be taken up in the Senate. Congressional Republicans decided to remain silent on the matter, denying pro-bill congressional Democrats the opportunity to use them as a unifying force. Republicans then watched from the sidelines as their Democratic coalition allies split the Democratic party vote in the Senate, defeating the bill. In the 1938 congressional elections the Republicans scored major gains in both houses, picking up six Senate seats and 80 House seats. Thereafter the Southern Democrats and Republicans in both Houses of Congress would often vote together on major economic issues, thus defeating many proposals by liberal Democrats. Truman's Fair Deal was passed during a brief period of liberal control in 194951.

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