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Thread: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The date of release makes no difference as long as the provisions are still the same.
    The increased mandates for coverage were not removed from the bill which is why the cost increases are likely to incur, that doesn't count the increased in costs to young people.

    This one shows that.
    The Associated Press: Health premiums could rise 17 pct for young adults
    That article is arguing something completely different. It's saying that young people will have to pick up more of the burden from elderly under the new law. It's a redistribution of costs, not an overall increase in cost for everyone.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    This is a very simplistic analysis. Not everyone who visits a physician really needs medical care. One of the problems with the current system is that people visit the doctor for trivial things too often. Now that people will have free access to medical care, this problem will become further exacerbated and demand for medical services will invariably rise, resulting in an increase in costs.
    Your assumption is contingent upon the belief that people will use medical services they don't need just because they are there. Could you provide a source establishing with actual statistics that this has occurred before?

    That's what happened under Romneycare, not sure why it would be different for Obamacare...
    Source?

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That article is arguing something completely different. It's saying that young people will have to pick up more of the burden from elderly under the new law. It's a redistribution of costs, not an overall increase in cost for everyone.
    It is an increase in costs for someone, what happened to the rhetoric of "your premiums will decrease?"

    What about the fact that young people have less income and resources than older people, how does it make sense to raise costs on them?

    It seems to me you're grasping at a justification for the existence of the bill that passed.
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It actually can when talking about medicaid.

    That programs has almost 0 out of pocket expenses and it has already been shown that the majority of people who visit the ER are medicare and medicaid patients.

    They may seek care for trivial things that they didn't before.
    I hear this argument often, but people don't provide any real evidence to support it. Do you base your belief on this viewpoint through actual evidence or simply what you have been told?

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The only goal was to provide affordable health care to all citizens.
    Oh come now this has nothing what ever to do with making anything better it's about destroying the economy.

    Had it been about health care it would have addressed the issues that needed to be fixed.

    Doctors said they didn't want this, The only Doctors that were in favor of it were the White House Janitors in white lab coats at phony photo op.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I hear this argument often, but people don't provide any real evidence to support it. Do you base your belief on this viewpoint through actual evidence or simply what you have been told?
    Evidence.

    Privately insured and uninsured are least likely to use the ER.

    ER Visits Mostly by Medicare, Medicaid Recipients - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It is an increase in costs for someone, what happened to the rhetoric of "your premiums will decrease?"
    I don't think that was a claim that Obama was making. When did Obama say that every American's premiums would be decreasing?

    What about the fact that young people have less income and resources than older people, how does it make sense to raise costs on them?
    It's inadequate assumption. Many older adults are living on fixed incomes and can't work.

    It seems to me you're grasping at a justification for the existence of the bill that passed.
    To the contrary. I haven't heard a sufficient argument to suggest that the legislation that passed won't control costs. Feel free to produce one. At present you have failed and only provided information on the Senate bill prior to the reconciliation.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Your assumption is contingent upon the belief that people will use medical services they don't need just because they are there. Could you provide a source establishing with actual statistics that this has occurred before?
    Here's just one thing I know of...

    Antibiotics Overprescribed By Doctors, Study Suggests

    Moreover, with all the prescription medicine commercials out there, I have to assume that at least some of the people who "ask their doctor about ________" don't really need medical care.

    I've personally been to the physician for something I didn't need, as have the rest of my family. I assume the phenomena of bitching and moaning isn't limited to myself and my kin...

    Source?
    The Massachusetts Health Mess - WSJ.com

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The debate is whether the bill does enough to control costs. I have yet to hear an intelligent, evidence based argument presented from either side that indicates how this bill will affect cost. All I hear is speculation and ideology.
    The law will cost $trillions, so where are the savings?
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Do you have any sources that actually talk about the legislation that was passed? None of these sources seem to discuss the legislation that was actually passed, by which I mean the Senate Bill and the fixes that they approved later. They also refer to the CBO report of just the Senate Bill, not the CBO report that was released of the combined legislation.

    If we are going to talk about whether or not Obama's health care will control costs, shouldn't we be talking about the legislation that we actually have?
    Maybe you should get Bart Stupak to splain it to you, I hear he has plenty of time now.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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