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Thread: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    And yet you support the bill?
    I supported doing something that may have been a disaster over doing nothing that would have assuredly been a disaster.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I supported doing something that may have been a disaster over doing nothing that would have assuredly been a disaster.
    There are more options than "doing nothing" and "possible disaster".

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Do you have any sources that actually talk about the legislation that was passed? None of these sources seem to discuss the legislation that was actually passed, by which I mean the Senate Bill and the fixes that they approved later. They also refer to the CBO report of just the Senate Bill, not the CBO report that was released of the combined legislation.

    If we are going to talk about whether or not Obama's health care will control costs, shouldn't we be talking about the legislation that we actually have?
    The AP/fact check article specifically talks about it.

    The report that was released was in reference to the Senate Reconciliation bill.
    The one that was passed.

    Some of the other articles break down to specific provisions that would increase costs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    It will increase demand for medical services, yes?
    Not really. In fact, that is a nonsense argument. I can't believe that there were simple enough minded conservatives out there who actually believed that people without insurance coverage don't seek medical services. They always have; they just waited until they were sick enough that the government would foot the bill. As such, there really won't be much change in the actual demand.

    People get sick regardless of whether they have insurance or not. So the demand for medical services will largely remain the same as it was before the legislation. The difference is where the demand will be placed on the system. Instead of it primarily being placed on emergency care, where it has been as a result of people without insurance waiting until they were sick enough that they had to get treatment, it will be placed on more standard care.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 04-13-10 at 03:53 AM.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The AP/fact check article specifically talks about it.

    The report that was released was in reference to the Senate Reconciliation bill.
    The one that was passed.

    Some of the other articles break down to specific provisions that would increase costs.
    The AP fact check article could not. It was released on March 17th. The CBO report on the reconciliation package was released on March 18th.

    The fact of the matter is that you are reading articles that don't detail that actual legislation that we have. They only refer to the Senate bill before the changes.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Not really. In fact, that is a nonsense argument. I can't believe that there were simple enough minded conservatives out there who actually believed that people without insurance coverage don't seek medical services. They always have; they just waited until they were sick enough that the government would foot the bill. As such, there really won't be much change in the actual demand.

    People get sick regardless of whether they have insurance or not. So the demand for medical services will largely remain the same as it was before the legislation. The difference is where the demand will be placed on the system. Instead of it primarily being placed on emergency care, where it has been as a result of people without insurance waiting until they were sick enough that they had to get treatment, it will be placed on more standard care.
    So, it won't increase access to medical care?

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    So, it won't increase access to medical care?
    It will change when people get medical care, not whether or not they need it. No health care reform could have influenced the overall demand for medical services. The demand for standard care will increase while the demand for emergency care will decrease, but the overall demand for medical services will stay relatively the same.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The AP fact check article could not. It was released on March 17th. The CBO report on the reconciliation package was released on March 18th.

    The fact of the matter is that you are reading articles that don't detail that actual legislation that we have. They only refer to the Senate bill before the changes.
    The date of release makes no difference as long as the provisions are still the same.
    The increased mandates for coverage were not removed from the bill which is why the cost increases are likely to incur, that doesn't count the increased in costs to young people.

    This one shows that.
    The Associated Press: Health premiums could rise 17 pct for young adults
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It will change when people get medical care, not whether or not they need it. No health care reform could have influenced the overall demand for medical services. The demand for standard care will increase while the demand for emergency care will decrease, but the overall demand for medical services will stay relatively the same.
    It actually can when talking about medicaid.

    That programs has almost 0 out of pocket expenses and it has already been shown that the majority of people who visit the ER are medicare and medicaid patients.

    They may seek care for trivial things that they didn't before.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It will change when people get medical care, not whether or not they need it. No health care reform could have influenced the overall demand for medical services. The demand for standard care will increase while the demand for emergency care will decrease, but the overall demand for medical services will stay relatively the same.
    This is a very simplistic analysis. Not everyone who visits a physician really needs medical care. One of the problems with the current system is that people visit the doctor for trivial things too often. Now that people will have free access to medical care, this problem will become further exacerbated and demand for medical services will invariably rise, resulting in an increase in costs.

    That's what happened under Romneycare, not sure why it would be different for Obamacare...

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