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Thread: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

  1. #121
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Since you seem to be claiming to have read the bill in its entirety, why don't you provide some specific examples of how it will fail to control costs?
    you want blood out of a rock I see !
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Just out of curiosity, when the pharmaceutical company (Pfizer for instance) spends billions of dollars in R&D to develop one drug, how long do you think they should be able to keep the patent?

    When you make the patent even shorter then it already is, how do you think that would affect spending on the R&D and how many drugs are developed in the future?
    2 years tops.

    Intellectual property has no single owner once it has been released for public consumption.
    I bet you money there is a ton of waste going into that R&D, something that the government shouldn't prop up with monopoly power.

    Research has been institutionalized too much, individual inventors can be used to research things with their own money if the powers that be would let off on chemicals for non formal institutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I heard a pharma CEO recently say that if the profit margins for his company are reduced, it wouldn't be worthwhile for them to stay in the medical pharmaceutical industry. Instead, they would just switch to making vitamins and supplements - where profit margins are much higher. Think investors might do the same?
    I'm sure that will happen, they will dilute that limited market even further reducing profit margins.
    That brings them back to square one all over again.

    They know this already though.
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    you want blood out of a rock I see !
    Care to refute the examples I posted?

    Or do you just troll?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Maybe you can tell us how to pay for this thing that you think did not go far enough?
    We're paying for it before reform. We pay in insurance premiums, higher costs, passed on by those who use services and don't pay, a society that believes more is better (more tests, more procedures, more drugs) no matter what the actual fact of the matter is. Our present system without reform encourages excess in every way. How do you suppose we pay for that?

    Fact is, more reform, something a kind to a universal payer (which has not even ever been proposed), would allow some ability to measure and control cost, being more cost effective than the ad hock mess we currently have.

    Just because you're not paying with tax dollars doesn't mean you aren't paying for it and for others. You pay for those uninsured and unable to pay right now, without a single tax increase or one attached to health care reform.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Squeezing the patent ownership time for pharma would have been really good as well as normalizing or eliminating scope of practice laws.

    Ending the cap on doctors residency could of helped loads but that didn't have a hot chance in hell of happening.
    Well, I do see the not a chance in hell of passing comment. I suggest this is part of the problem. Some of the best answers have no chance.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Intellectual property has no single owner once it has been released for public consumption.
    No patents, no copyrights... And somehow you expect that business will continue to wililngly participate in investing, or individual investors will make up the difference out of the goodness of their hearts?

    In your perfect world, I see much less medical, technological, and artistic advancements and endeavors.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    The pharmaceuticals do have to have a way of recovering research and development costs, or there won't be any research and development. The current system is to give them a temporary monopoly on what they've developed.

    As a result, R and D continues, but more money is spent on advertising than on R and D. Another result is that some non generic prescriptions are so expensive that most people can't afford them without insurance, and the insurance companies can't afford them without charging rather large premiums.

    Is there a better way, I wonder, one that pays for R and D, but not TV ad campaigns?

    Maybe TV advertising of prescription drugs could go the way of TV advertising of tobacco products.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The pharmaceuticals do have to have a way of recovering research and development costs, or there won't be any research and development. The current system is to give them a temporary monopoly on what they've developed.

    As a result, R and D continues, but more money is spent on advertising than on R and D. Another result is that some non generic prescriptions are so expensive that most people can't afford them without insurance, and the insurance companies can't afford them without charging rather large premiums.

    Is there a better way, I wonder, one that pays for R and D, but not TV ad campaigns?

    Maybe TV advertising of prescription drugs could go the way of TV advertising of tobacco products.
    That would be OK with me.

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're paying for it before reform. We pay in insurance premiums, higher costs, passed on by those who use services and don't pay, a society that believes more is better (more tests, more procedures, more drugs) no matter what the actual fact of the matter is. Our present system without reform encourages excess in every way. How do you suppose we pay for that?

    Fact is, more reform, something a kind to a universal payer (which has not even ever been proposed), would allow some ability to measure and control cost, being more cost effective than the ad hock mess we currently have.

    Just because you're not paying with tax dollars doesn't mean you aren't paying for it and for others. You pay for those uninsured and unable to pay right now, without a single tax increase or one attached to health care reform.
    You didn't address my question. I asked how we are going to pay for the new health care reform bill that was signed into law.

    You say we are paying for it now, what department is in charge of moving the funds we are paying now over to pay for the new ones?

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    Re: 60 doctor-owned hospitals canceled due to new health law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    You didn't address my question. I asked how we are going to pay for the new health care reform bill that was signed into law.

    You say we are paying for it now, what department is in charge of moving the funds we are paying now over to pay for the new ones?
    That's the problem. Right now we have no way to control the cost, we've been charged for others with no way to monitor it or control it in anyway. It is done completely ad hoc with no real control at all, meaning we likely pay more than it actually costs.

    This bill will likely lower or reduce the growth of those costs, being more cost effective over all. At a minimum, we should be able to see more of where the money is going, giving us more control. But it won't be as effective as a true universal payer system would be.

    What we have now is a compromise effort that won't pay for anything as well as it could, but will likely be less expensive than doing nothing. The answer to your question is that we are shifting cost and not increasing cost. And if it works, it will lower both costs and premiums, thus saving money in the long run.

    I don't think this goes far enough to do so in a major way, but it is a start and better than doing nothing. But either way, no matter we do, we pay for it. Just as we have been paying for it all along.

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