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Thread: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

  1. #121
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I did a word search of the Constitution and "collectively" found no matches.
    What's your point? You're arguing there are no collective rights, that all rights are individual rights, and that a group of individuals do not have the same rights as each of the individuals in that group? I find this particulary interesting - I assume then you beleive that the 2nd amendment covers an individual right not associated with a collective right as well.

    And, just as an aside, you alsoi didnt find 'education;, health care' or 'retirement' in the Constitution -- I presume then you believe the government should have nothing to do with those things?

    Great then show me where the constitution addresses lobbying.
    Its well-=established law that the right to 'free speech' covers political speech expressed as campiagn donations.

    I never said Black people should not be able to exercise their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government.
    You did, in that you disagree that the NAACP (and any other group that represents the interests of black people) should not be allowed to lobby.

  2. #122
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    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    What's your point? You're arguing there are no collective rights, that all rights are individual rights, and that a group of individuals do not have the same rights as each of the individuals in that group? I find this particulary interesting - I assume then you beleive that the 2nd amendment covers an individual right not associated with a collective right as well.
    You mean:
    Amendment II (1791)
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Which part of that do you believe speaks of a collective, not explicitly implied, like "militia"?

    And, just as an aside, you alsoi didnt find 'education;, health care' or 'retirement' in the Constitution -- I presume then you believe the government should have nothing to do with those things?
    Well which side of your mouth are you going to argue, either it's in there and that's all there is to it or if it's not then that's all there is to it. Which way do you prefer to argue because I'm not going to play the game where you move the goal posts depending on what argument you decide to proffer.

    Its well-=established law that the right to 'free speech' covers political speech expressed as campiagn donations.
    Lobbying doesn't necessarily mean contributing money to a political campaign.

    You did, in that you disagree that the NAACP (and any other group that represents the interests of black people) should not be allowed to lobby.
    Which is very different than the strawman you keep trying, unsuccessfully, to build.

  3. #123
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    You mean:
    [I]Amendment II (1791)
    yes, I mean that.
    Does a collection of individuals have the same rights as each individual in it, or not? If not, why not?

    Well which side of your mouth are you going to argue, either it's in there and that's all there is to it or if it's not then that's all there is to it.
    The difference, of course, in that when arguing rights, if the limitation isnt listed, its not there; when arguing powers given to the government, if the poweris not there, it doesnt exist.

    So, the fact that you cannot find anything regrding a collective right in the Constitution is meaningLESS as there is nothin in the constititoon that prohibits such a thing; that you cannot fins reference to education, et al, is meaningFUL becaise if th epower isnt granted, it doesnt exist.

    Lobbying doesn't necessarily mean contributing money to a political campaign.
    Even if that is true, it -does- mean that in this particular context.

    Its well-=established law that the right to 'free speech' covers political speech expressed as campiagn donations; as such, the Constitution addresses lobbying.

    Which is very different than the strawman you keep trying, unsuccessfully, to build.
    No, it is the -exact- effect of what you said.

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