Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 123

Thread: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

  1. #111
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Physically, yes, but conceptually they are the same thing - people getting together so that their voices might be better heard as a group.
    That sounds like a protest. Going to your Representative to redress grievances are different things.
    The right to assemble is not the same is not the same as the right to redress grievances.

    So, why do you believe that black people should not be able to exercisie their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government?
    Why are you using Black people as your example, because I'm Black so I must automatically support the NAACP?

  2. #112
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    That sounds like a protest. Going to your Representative to redress grievances are different things. The right to assemble is not the same is not the same as the right to redress grievances.
    Who said anyting about protest or greivances? I'm talking abut the right to express political speech, in whatever manner, as a group. This is freedom of assembly, freedom of association, and freedom of speech.

    Blacks CLEARLY have the right to lobby their congressman as an individual - why do you oppose the rights of blacks to do this as a group?

    Why are you using Black people as your example, because I'm Black so I must automatically support the NAACP?
    I had no idea you were black

    I am -still- curious as to why you believe that black people should not be able to exercisie their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government?

  3. #113
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Who said anyting about protest or greivances? I'm talking abut the right to express political speech, in whatever manner, as a group. This is freedom of assembly, freedom of association, and freedom of speech.

    Blacks CLEARLY have the right to lobby their congressman as an individual - why do you oppose the rights of blacks to do this as a group?


    I had no idea you were black

    I am -still- curious as to why you believe that black people should not be able to exercisie their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government?
    You were comparing the right to assemble with lobbying. They are not comparable.

    The Constitution says you have the right to petition government for redress of grievances. It does not mention special interest lobbying which, as we hear a lot from cons, if it's not in the Constitution...

    You are free to assemble to play tiddly winks or protest but the right to freely assemble has nothing to do with petitioning government for redress of grievances.

  4. #114
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    "Private interests" are people or persons influencing the political system for personal gain such as businesses.
    If the government wasn't in the business of business, there'd be no need for lobbying.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #115
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If the government wasn't in the business of business, there'd be no need for lobbying.
    You might consider the history of what got government involved.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #116
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You might consider the history of what got government involved.
    Antitrust, but that's not a thumbsup to get wholely involved in everything.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #117
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    You were comparing the right to assemble with lobbying. They are not comparable.
    They are. Grouping together is 'assembly'; using the term as I did is not incorrect, it is just not in the usual sense.

    The Constitution says you have the right to petition government for redress of grievances. It does not mention special interest lobbying which, as we hear a lot from cons, if it's not in the Constitution.
    You have the right to free speech, political speech in particular, and that right includes donting to campaign funds.
    Lobbying is the right to free speech exercised collectively, as in a group of people assembling together to do so.

    You are free to assemble to play tiddly winks or protest but the right to freely assemble has nothing to do with petitioning government for redress of grievances.
    It does, as noted above.
    Aside from that, you're arguing a false premise in that nothing here necessitates that the act of lobbying revolves around redressing grievances.

    So, I am -still- curious as to why you believe that black people should not be able to exercisie their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government?

  8. #118
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Antitrust, but that's not a thumbsup to get wholely involved in everything.
    Not a thumbs down either. Nor is the government actually and factually involved in everything. But there are areas of concern which have shown to need some regulation, from food safety to predatory lending.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #119
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    They are. Grouping together is 'assembly'; using the term as I did is not incorrect, it is just not in the usual sense.


    You have the right to free speech, political speech in particular, and that right includes donting to campaign funds.
    Lobbying is the right to free speech exercised collectively, as in a group of people assembling together to do so.
    I did a word search of the Constitution and "collectively" found no matches.

    It does, as noted above.
    Aside from that, you're arguing a false premise in that nothing here necessitates that the act of lobbying revolves around redressing grievances.
    Great then show me where the constitution addresses lobbying.

    So, I am -still- curious as to why you believe that black people should not be able to exercisie their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government?
    I never said Black people should not be able to exercise their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government.

  10. #120
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: Obama: We're still working on our democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I did a word search of the Constitution and "collectively" found no matches.


    Great then show me where the constitution addresses lobbying.


    I never said Black people should not be able to exercise their right to assemble with like-minded black people in order to be better heard by the government.
    It doesn't, therefore lobbying isn't an issue.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •