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Thread: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It amazes me that people get upset when the government regulates dangerous things.
    They don't try to regulate words very often, that's odd.
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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It isn't about making things convenient. It's about an opportunity to take guns away from someone who shouldn't have them. Just because you can't prevent all undesirable people from owning guns doesn't mean you shouldn't take steps to prevent it and enforce the law. This makes society safer, that is the compelling social interest.
    What makes a person "undesirable" in terms of exercising their Constitutional rights? We already have the NICS system intended to prevent felons, loonies, known substance abusers and suchlike from buying firearms legally... so who else do you want to prevent from owning a firearm?

    If someone is truly an idiot, like the woman in this story, would a safety class have prevented her from doing what she did? Doubtful.


    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Education will prevent accidents. Right now, ignorant people have accidents with guns. The number could be reduced by requiring education. This is just common sense.
    Again, you have offered no proof, only assumptions. If you wish to turn a Constitutional RIGHT into a licensed PRIVILEGE (that has to be renewed every 5 years), you should have to show that it has an actual, real-world proven, substantial positive effect on society as a whole (at a minimum!). At this point, you have offered no such proof.

    Indeed, even if there were such proof, and none has been presented, one could argue that licensing a right in this manner is still Constitutionally dubious.

    There are people who are "undesirable" in terms of free speech after all... like neo-Nazi White Supremacists. We could change your statement thus:

    It isn't about making things convenient. It's about an opportunity to take political speech away from someone who shouldn't have it. Just because you can't prevent all undesirable people from spreading their dangerous ideology doesn't mean you shouldn't take steps to prevent it and enforce the law. This makes society safer, that is the compelling social interest
    Well, society would be safer if Neo-Nazi White Supremacists could not legally spread their ideology... so are you OK with a 5 year renewable Free Speech card?

    I'm guessing the answer is "no". Neither am I. If you're going to respect one Constitutional Right, respect them all.
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-09-10 at 07:38 AM.

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Gets ridiculous in a hurry, doesn't it....
    And yet, liberals are perfectly happy to regulate the right to arms in ways that, if applied to the rights they -do- like, would cause them to scream bloody murder.

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It amazes me that people get upset when the government regulates dangerous things.
    Regulation that does not infringe on the right to arms bothers me not in the least.

    A FOID? Infringement.

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The "criteria" for getting a driver's license is "not getting more than six DUI's" in some states. I don't really see what the worry is about.
    What's the constitutional criteria for exercising the right to arms?
    That is, what requirement does the Constitution specify?

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    To say "at the government's whim" isn't an honest representation of reality. There are valid reasons that some people shouldn't have guns.
    Who argues this isnt the case?

    The public safety trumps an individual right.
    Only when that 'public safety' is placed in a state of clear, present and immediate danger.

    One vote can't take a life.
    And so...?

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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    What makes a person "undesirable" in terms of exercising their Constitutional rights? We already have the NICS system intended to prevent felons, loonies, known substance abusers and suchlike from buying firearms legally... so who else do you want to prevent from owning a firearm?

    If someone is truly an idiot, like the woman in this story, would a safety class have prevented her from doing what she did? Doubtful.
    The NICS system won't stop someone from buying ammo at their local WalMart.

    And it doesn't matter if would have stopped this woman or not. It would help prevent other situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Again, you have offered no proof, only assumptions. If you wish to turn a Constitutional RIGHT into a licensed PRIVILEGE (that has to be renewed every 5 years), you should have to show that it has an actual, real-world proven, substantial positive effect on society as a whole (at a minimum!). At this point, you have offered no such proof.

    Indeed, even if there were such proof, and none has been presented, one could argue that licensing a right in this manner is still Constitutionally dubious.
    You are asking me to prove that something that hasn't been tried yet works. As I have stated, it's just common sense that better education leads to more responsibility and fewer accidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There are people who are "undesirable" in terms of free speech after all... like neo-Nazi White Supremacists. We could change your statement thus:



    Well, society would be safer if Neo-Nazi White Supremacists could not legally spread their ideology... so are you OK with a 5 year renewable Free Speech card?

    I'm guessing the answer is "no". Neither am I. If you're going to respect one Constitutional Right, respect them all.
    Find me a coroner's report or death certificate that states the cause of death as "free speech wound to the head".

    Guns are more dangerous than words. People "shoot their mouth off" all the time and no one has to go to the emergency room or morgue.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    The NICS system won't stop someone from buying ammo at their local WalMart.

    And it doesn't matter if would have stopped this woman or not. It would help prevent other situations.



    You are asking me to prove that something that hasn't been tried yet works. As I have stated, it's just common sense that better education leads to more responsibility and fewer accidents.
    There are states that use FOID. Show proof that the use of FOID has had a substantial positive effect on accidents or crime IN those states and then we might have something to discuss. Until then it is just speculation. "I think that turning this fundamental right, enumerated in the Constitution, into a licenced privilege will help make things better" is an inadequate justification. The burden of proof is on you if you want to infringe on a fundamental right, whether that right is one of your "sacred cows" or not.

    If you simply want everyone who might own a gun to take a safety course, simply make a gun safety course a standard High School class that everyone takes in their Senior year. No need for FOID.



    Find me a coroner's report or death certificate that states the cause of death as "free speech wound to the head".

    Guns are more dangerous than words. People "shoot their mouth off" all the time and no one has to go to the emergency room or morgue.

    The propagation of Nazi ideology resulted in millions of deaths in the 20th Century. Also culpable for many deaths are White Surpremacist ideology, Stalinism and Maoism. Words can indeed be far more dangerous than bullets. Epic Fail, my friend.
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-10-10 at 01:33 PM.

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  9. #49
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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    I wonder if this happaned in Arabland if it would be labled a religious slaying all over the news?
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    Re: 911 call: Gun in Easter fight was 'to prove point'

    That lady was not very smart. She should have made sure it wasn't even loaded when she held it at her. Or make sure safety was on.

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