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Thread: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

  1. #41
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    This video showed extremely poor conduct. Is it condoned policy to kill people on sight simply for carrying weapons? There was no hostile actions by any of the people, and they could have easily instructed them to thrown down their weapons and surrender before opening fire. The Apache was in very little danger, so they could have easily taken their time in figuring out what was going on. Shooting the van collecting the wounded is simply unacceptable.

    What bothers me most is that the soldiers received permission to fire upon the van. They didn't just freak out and fire, they calmly asked for permission to fire, and were given clearance to do so. There was no indication of anything hostile from the van, and yet some commander still authorized its destruction. Furthermore, this incident was not reported to the press. No evidence that the soldiers were disciplined for the event has come out either.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster
    So we have to wait for someone to attack before we can attack? What planet are you on?
    This is an occupation, not a war. In order to attack the distinction must be made between civilian and enemy combatant. Holding an AK-47 is not sufficient distinction.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My point was that whether you call it a war or an occupation, warfare is the end result.
    This is 100 % correct. It might not be a declared war, but the nature of the conflict is that of war.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    AK's are very commonplace in Iraq. Are you suggesting that simply carrying one is a sufficient justification for engaging?
    Absolutely. I was in Iraq for the 2003 invasion with the Marine Corps. Those were our orders. It's my life or theirs.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    A tragic outcome of war in a populated environment. I can understand why the troops engaged.

    What I find interesting is in the last week the number of bombings in Pakastan and Bagdad killing inocent people, yet no topic topic on breaking news.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Absolutely. I was in Iraq for the 2003 invasion with the Marine Corps. Those were our orders. It's my life or theirs.
    ROE's are not static in an evolving conflict, devil dog. What was appropriate in 2003 is not necessarily appropriate in 2007.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Absolutely. I was in Iraq for the 2003 invasion with the Marine Corps. Those were our orders. It's my life or theirs.
    I suspect that the rules of engagement have changed since the invasion. I am sure that there will be further investigations into this, and details like that will come out.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    ROE's are not static in an evolving conflict, devil dog. What was appropriate in 2003 is not necessarily appropriate in 2007.
    This is true. The rules of engagement probably changed once the strategy moved from invasion to occupation, which is why occupying is typically the Army's job. But the insurgents created an environment where Marines were still necessary. Marines are best at locating, closing with, and destroying the enemy.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Salon actually has a very good piece on this, that takes a very even look at the video: A guide to watching WikiLeaks' video of shooting in Iraq - War Room - Salon.com

    The video comes with several caveats. First, the warning soldiers always give about viewing things like this: Videos simply don't capture the complexity, pressures and confusion of modern warfare, they say. Things may look one way, now, on video, but in the heat of battle, it's likely that they seemed a lot different to those involved.

    Second, the video may not show Americans doing anything wrong -- or at least not illegal under the Law of Armed Conflict. The shorthand version of that law is that you can kill the enemy, period. The gray area in asymmetrical warfare, however, is determining just who the enemy is. Given those ambiguities, in a military courtroom a jury would have to determine if the shooter "honestly and reasonably" believed he was shooting the enemy, according to Gary Solis, an expert on military law at Georgetown University. "That will always be a defense," he told Salon.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    I went a step further and called Homeland Security DHS | Contact Us

    And told them about the threatening comments on the video reagarding America.
    Thank you Captain America

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