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Thread: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

  1. #151
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    You can't effect an arrest from a helicopter. If you engage an enemy you kill them.
    It prevents you from having to engage the same target next month. Simple as.
    It was not necessary. They did not have to engage in a group of men standing around over a gun in a country where guns are probably a common sight.
    From the video, no one was shooting at anyone. No one was engaging in any, as far as I could see hostile activity.
    No one was in any immediate danger.

    You can't arrest the helicopter no but you are arrest the idiots giving the orders.


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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    And now you can see the balls... or maybe desperation it took for mild torture victims pictures to be released early on and then have alllllll the bad ones depicting murder (didnt obama pretty much almost admit that or no?)there after scooped up and locked away because it would be a threat to national security. Why? Because they must be so grotesque that the American people would have shook the ground with there marches until the very foundation that allowed this all to happened crumbled into dust. They can't afford to tell my fellow Americans the truth.

    Incidents like this only go to prove that the American people need to see all misdeeds we do. Humans need to see what exactly we did to torture. And if it horrible then discipline must come lawfully. And if they are all deleted then everything else Obama and Bush have done need to be picked with a fine tooth comb. Past, present and future. Only then can we truly weigh them against our good deeds.
    I agree, I have always supported media reporting on Iraq and Afghanistan and casualties.

    If individuals do not have the balls to observe the consequences of military actions on countries then perhaps they'd need to review their opinions on wars.
    If the British public saw war as it truly is without Government covering it up, I doubt anyone would support it.
    Last edited by Laila; 04-06-10 at 08:00 PM.


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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.

    What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van? The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.

    Meanwhile at the end of the video, when dealing with the injured children, U.S. troops were ordered to let the Iraqi Police take care of them. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Let the Iraqi Police investigate the guy with the gun, and the U.S. Helicopter take care of the wounded child. I realize this was 2007 and things might be slightly more civilized now, but I see no excuse for some of the behavior in this video. Much respect to Wikileaks and to whoever sent them the video to right this injustice, accidental or not.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.]
    You don't wear a AK-47 in a hot area, if you hear gunshots and a helicopter then you go inside and wait till it's over.


    What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van? The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.
    Because it's not your job to take care of the wounded. US can do that and they never know who is trying to take care of them. If the guys in the video are targets, then most likely so are the ones in the van targets as well. If you see your friend get hit by the US helicopter, take cover, not run out in the open trying to take him and all of the guns in a black van.

    Also, leave your children home before you start going around in the open in a hot spot. That should be common sense, shouldn't it?
    Last edited by Camlon; 04-06-10 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #155
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.
    They were being fired at - if you paid attention to the relay between pilot and dispatcher you would have picked up on that key fact. They didn't engage freely, either.
    They believed they saw a weapon, they were being fired upon and asked permission for clearance to fire - and gained that permission and then fired.

    What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van?
    Yes, sure, they were trying to evacuate their own - and still been covered under the permission to fire - they did as they felt was required.

    The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.

    Meanwhile at the end of the video, when dealing with the injured children, U.S. troops were ordered to let the Iraqi Police take care of them. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Let the Iraqi Police investigate the guy with the gun, and the U.S. Helicopter take care of the wounded child. I realize this was 2007 and things might be slightly more civilized now, but I see no excuse for some of the behavior in this video. Much respect to Wikileaks and to whoever sent them the video to right this injustice, accidental or not.
    You obviously don't know much about combat and military engagement if you're really questioning all this.

    I challenge you to do what any soldier has to do - every damn day.

    Why is your concern so misplaced? You should be hurt and worried over the soldiers and how they're doing while deployed, not what they're doing and why and what they're thinking when they're doing it.

    Did these soldiers have a chance to talk to their loved ones at home during the week? Did they have adequate sleeping arrangements? When it got cold at night did they have decent cover or did they shiver in their foxholes?

    I'm really TIRED of people giving too much of a **** about the enemy and not a single flying **** about the people who REALLY matter in this situation. Get your **** straight.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 04-06-10 at 09:10 PM.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    To tell you the truth G. The initial actions of the Apache crew were correct under the circumstances. They identified (correctly or incorrectly) the group as armed. They reported the contact, got permission to engage. and did so. From the video it appears justified.
    No issues there.

    Then the van arrives.
    Guess what? They were justified in taking out the van also. Remember that they had just identified an armed group of insurgents. Anyone giving aid to same is an insurgent also. That's what makes it a valid target.
    As it turns out the initial sighting was incorrect, and an error on the part of the US. But an understandable one given the quality of the video feed. But the steps taken after that were the correct ones.

    Its regretable, but bound to happen given the nature of the conflict.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They were being fired at - if you paid attention to the relay between pilot and dispatcher you would have picked up on that key fact. They didn't engage freely, either.
    They believed they saw a weapon, they were being fired upon and asked permission for clearance to fire - and gained that permission and then fired.
    I had to watch it again to see what you are talking about. When the pilot said "We've got a guy shooting" he was mistaking the reporter's video camera for an RPG. There was no hostility against the Americans that I can see on that video. Perhaps you can point out to me where I am wrong.

    Why is your concern so misplaced? You should be hurt and worried over the soldiers and how they're doing while deployed, not what they're doing and why and what they're thinking when they're doing it.

    Did these soldiers have a chance to talk to their loved ones at home during the week? Did they have adequate sleeping arrangements? When it got cold at night did they have decent cover or did they shiver in their foxholes?

    I'm really TIRED of people giving too much of a **** about the enemy and not a single flying **** about the people who REALLY matter in this situation. Get your **** straight.
    They are not my enemy. I treat them both the same. The Iraqi people have never harmed me. The soldiers in the helicopter have never helped me. I'm not going to side with one over the other because of where they were born. There are bad people on the American side as well as the Iraqi side. And from what I've seen of this video the Iraqis were innocent in this case. Not all Americans are good and not all Iraqis are bad. To think that way and have that sort of blind patriotism is as ignorant as racism or any other type of prejudicial thoughts.

    The Americans can get in their helicopter and go home anytime they want to. The Iraqis are home, they have nowhere else to go. The Americans chose to join the army, and knew (or should've known) they would be in dangerous situations and might not get to talk to their loved ones. The Iraqis (for the most part) didn't choose to have a war in their back yard, and their loved ones are being shot at. After this mission, the Americans flew their helicopter back to base and had dinner. The Iraqis were dead. Even if it was just a tragic accident (which I think is only partly true) the civilians were the victims here. These are logical reasons for me to sympathize with the Iraqis rather than the Americans in this case. This is not misplaced, this is my thought-out opinion.
    Last edited by Tsunami; 04-07-10 at 02:52 AM.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    It's disturbing to read the kinds of insane justification that some people are willing to use for the slaughtering of UNARMED human beings, simply because it was "our side" that did it. Disgusting.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    No, but there should be a demonstration of hostile intent before engaging. Simply walking out in the open with an AK-47 (which is commonplace in Iraq) is not a sufficient demonstration of hostility.



    Actually, no, it's not.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-07-10 at 10:33 AM.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    This video showed extremely poor conduct. Is it condoned policy to kill people on sight simply for carrying weapons? There was no hostile actions by any of the people, and they could have easily instructed them to thrown down their weapons and surrender before opening fire. The Apache was in very little danger, so they could have easily taken their time in figuring out what was going on. Shooting the van collecting the wounded is simply unacceptable.

    What bothers me most is that the soldiers received permission to fire upon the van. They didn't just freak out and fire, they calmly asked for permission to fire, and were given clearance to do so. There was no indication of anything hostile from the van, and yet some commander still authorized its destruction. Furthermore, this incident was not reported to the press. No evidence that the soldiers were disciplined for the event has come out either.




    the US Military does not answer to the press..... Furthermore, the van entered a firefight. It could have had something that could have brought the aircraft down.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-07-10 at 10:33 AM.
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