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Thread: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

  1. #111
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I remember a story of a guy who ended up getting out due to PTSD. He was manning a .50 cal at a roadblock. A car came at them and looked like it was not going to slow down. He had a split second to react. He opened fire, killed a man, his two kids and pregnant wife. He was taking her to the hospital to give birth. This poor guy may never be right after that(this is what I mean the stress they are under), but he acted properly for the situation. If it had been a car bomb and he did not open fire, the guys this man was tasked to protect would have been the ones who died.
    And sadly the only way you'd likely hear about the story if he DIDN'T open fire was if it was being used as a "Woe is us, look at our troops dying, we have to bring them home". So they open fire and they're a horrible person killing innocents, they don't fire and they're lives are used as political propaganda.

    Which is why in part I'm still angry how both of these wars have been handled by both sides, and hate our society that has caused war to have to happen in this way. War works best when the dirty details are not in the publics eyes, but that can only work successfully in pure, total, complete war where an enemy is known and destruction is key not necessarily "Winning hopes and minds" in a lengthy elongated campaign.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And sadly the only way you'd likely hear about the story if he DIDN'T open fire was if it was being used as a "Woe is us, look at our troops dying, we have to bring them home". So they open fire and they're a horrible person killing innocents, they don't fire and they're lives are used as political propaganda.
    To be honest, if just the raw footage had been posted, I would not be too upset. I will explain that more in a bit. What does piss me off about this was the inclusion of the pictures of the reporters son that opened the video. That took it clearly into the realm of propaganda, just there to elicit an emotional reaction. It makes watching what does happen particularly painful. And so people jump to conclusions.

    Which is why in part I'm still angry how both of these wars have been handled by both sides, and hate our society that has caused war to have to happen in this way. War works best when the dirty details are not in the publics eyes, but that can only work successfully in pure, total, complete war where an enemy is known and destruction is key not necessarily "Winning hopes and minds" in a lengthy elongated campaign.
    I disagree with this. I think people have to see things like this(minus the propaganda part). We have to see what war is, so we can make informed decisions on whether to send our young men and women into war. It's not some WW2 from the 40's where a snap happens and the tragic young guy spins down cleanly, gasps a line about his mom and girlfriend and dies. People need to know the costs of war, so we can decide properly if we should go to war.
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If every act of war was broadcast and showed to the average citizen there's probably a good bit we'd never get into any wars, even the ones those that are against all modern ones would approve of such as WW2.
    I agree with you up to the point of WWII, considering that Germany was a direct threat to the livelihood and liberty of many people the world over. I've seen plenty of archived footage of what went on in WWII, and I would have supported the campaigns. I probably would have become involved in the war as a doctor or even a soldier, and I'm a fairly anti-war kind of guy.

    The greatest asset to democracy is an informed populous. If an informed populous doesn't want to go to war, then that is their right. Preventing war correspondents from documenting what is going on is blatant dishonesty. Most of the photos we are seeing of bodies in Iraq were taken by people who did not have permission to do so, and they are the kind of journalists and activists that are key to an informed democracy. Yet they are the ones who would be arrested and thrown out.

    If people see the coverage and decide to be against the war, then so be it. That is what democracy means. Not letting the public have access to the truth is against our government's service to us. Their job is to give us the facts and then we decide what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The fact of the matter is that the average citizen does not have the stomach to endure or witness such horrors that makes up war; its why not every person is fit to survive the rigors of the life of a soldier.
    That's well and good, but we're not talking about the criteria for joining the army. I'm talking about an informed democracy that should have the right to know where its tax dollars are going at all times, and be able to make decisions in kind. Our military exists to protect us from danger. If they are overseas killing people via my funding, I want as much access to know about what they are doing as is possible and have input into the political discourse regarding the war.

    Even people who are fairly anti-war like me acknowledge that there is such a thing as just war. WWII was an example. When the government has to work hard to manufacture consent with propaganda campaigns, then you know there is shady business going on. WWII and Nazi Germany spoke for itself.

    If our war is just and our government is honest, then they shouldn't have to hide behind a media blackout. Just saying.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    I will agree about the propaganda part. I watched the unedited 30 minute version lacking the commentary other than subtitles. You'd think with a video like this, spin wouldn't be needed to get the point across. Using cheap tactics detracts from the objective seriousness of what really happened.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    The saddest thing of all.... This happened in 2007?
    Time to throw out the bombing of Dresden now to prove how Americans are killers at heart. What freaking difference does it make what year it was? It's war.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Apache takes out people setting markers for a field to be plowed. I remember seeing the final part to what would be this video a few years back. It is very gross and can see that no people have weapons in there hands. They then zoom in on a survivor that is crawling very, very slowly. Then they shoot again even though he has no weapon and cannot stand.

    [ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6bea3ad073]LiveLeak.com - Technical analysis of apache helicopter shooting Iraqis.[/ame]
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Time to throw out the bombing of Dresden now to prove how Americans are killers at heart. What freaking difference does it make what year it was? It's war.
    Why has it taken so long for this video to reach the public surface? What is so secret in this happening that has kept it classified for so long? The fact that a reporter got shot the only reason it was hidden to never be released?
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Why has it taken so long for this video to reach the public surface?
    Probably because the military knew that it would be used as propaganda against our efforts abroad, and that such things do not lend themselves to objective analysis given the polarized nature of politics. I think you and a few others have already proven my point with your insistence on labeling this a cold-blooded murder.

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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    That video is disgusting, and I find it appalling that a number of folks on this thread are either okay with the murder of the innocent civilians or outright condoning it. I find it difficult to believe that the majority of folks are okay with actions like this, be they liberal or conservative.

    I find your ignorance on the topic appalling. Go fly rainbow colored kites somewhere else. War is hell and the targets needed to be taken out. I would do what the military there did, in a heartbeat. And you do NOT know the whole story of what happened there.

    You little girls that whine about these things are getting fed propaganda from our enemy!
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    Re: Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
    Wikileaks can be found here:

    WikiLeaks

    The video can be viewed here:

    YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.



    BBC News - WikiLeaks posts 'killing' video

    I served in Iraq and witnessed many strategic errors that cost the lives of many innocents, but unfortunately war is trial and error and we need to learn from our mistakes and minimize the risk while increasing success.

    This footage depicts one of those mistakes, but the killings where unintentional and nobody is to blame but those who ordered the operation. I know as i have seen that there are many more videos yet to be brought to the public eye and its only a matter of time they do.
    This video made me sick to my stomach. Where were the guns? And so what if they had guns? Maybe they had them for protection from Iraqi militants? How would you feel about being shot up by an apache for having out your pistol while walking around town?

    Just listen to them gloat about it too. That is why I will never join the army. I could never get satisfaction out of killing another human being, even if they were my enemy.

    And we wonder why they hate us over there?

    Someone should have been put on trial for this war crime, mistake or not.

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