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Thread: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyBoy View Post
    I guess there's two threads on this topic?

    This 10 yo was hit with a 'Stun Gun' not a 'Taser'. Actually this article has both Stun and Taser for what was used to subdue this kid?

    A Taser is the yellow marked gun that shoots out two electrical prongs which are connected to two electrical wires. But this isn't what the kid was shot with, he was tapped with a 'Stun Gun'. The media doesn't even know the damn difference between the two weapons! Jesus! This is not even news worthy.

    The reason why cops use Stun Guns on unruly kids is because when they usually try to subdue them the officers end up leaving bruises on their arms from the kids struggling and resisting so much. A stun gun doesn't leave a bruise. I bet that little rug rat complies with the day care next time.
    Taser is the brand name for a particular type of stun gun

    what you are talkin about is the following

    Some Taser models, particularly those used by police departments, also have a "Drive Stun" capability, where the Taser is held against the target without firing the projectiles, and is intended to cause pain without incapacitating the target. "Drive Stun" is "the process of using the EMD weapon [Taser] as a pain compliance technique. This is done by activating the EMD and placing it against an individual’s body. This can be done without an air cartridge in place or after an air cartridge has been deployed."[22]
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser]Taser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post

    I want to see pictures of this child-hercules that couldn't be stopped without a few thousand volts of electricity.



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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Taser is the brand name for a particular type of stun gun

    what you are talkin about is the following

    Taser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Correct, But the articles aren't telling the reader what exactly the kid was subdued with. Indeed the name 'Taser' is a trademarked name but the media doesn't know the difference between a 'Stun Gun' , Taser Gun, and a 'Drive/Dry Stun' which is performed with the 'Taser Gun'(like in your Wikipedia link). See, The media confuses the three and they do it every time there's a Taser story.

    Long story short, The kid was Drive/Dry stunned with the Taser, not shot with the prongs.

    This article here is from a non-lethal weapons web sight.

    Stun Guns and Taser™ devices are reported about all the time. So much so that the average Joe uses those words interchangeably. Stun guns and tasers have a very important tactical difference. Effective Range.

    If you need to repel someone, would you want to do it from 0 feet away or up to 15 feet? Up close and personal or from a safer distance?

    Stun guns are an effective contact weapon but you must physically touch the person with the prongs of the stun gun. It is also best to hold it on them for many seconds. Stun guns work by rapidly overworking the muscle group and depleting it of blood sugar. See "how stun guns work." In addition to shocking and immobilizing pain and extreme exertions of muscle contraction, the result is similar to muscle failure.

    A Taser device such as the new Taser C2, allows you to repel the attacker from up to 15 feet away (7-10 feet being optimum target spread.)
    BIG difference from a stun gun which requires direct contact.

    Police carry their own version of a Taser device which you hear about if read the news. The police version is similar to the C2's predecessor, Advanced Taser. However, the law enforcement version does have a longer range (21 feet compared to the civilian 15 feet).

    So now you know one of the main differences between a "taser" and a "stun gun." Effective range. And you also know that a stun gun is not the same as a Taser. The media still doesn't know any better when they're reporting it, but at least you do.

    Taser C2- Stun Gun
    Last edited by PonyBoy; 04-05-10 at 05:05 AM.
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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Things like this are why I don't like the idea of the police being issued tasers in the first place. Since they're 'non-lethal' some of them are apparently of the opinion that it's okay to use a taser just to shut someone up.
    Yeah, it would be so much better if their only option was to pull their gun and start shooting.

    .

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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Yeah, it would be so much better if their only option was to pull their gun and start shooting.

    .
    Nice strawman there.

    It would be better if police did not treat tasers as compliance tools, but rather as alternatives to lethal force. Like rubber bullets - you only use them when you need to, because they are very likely to cause injury and can even be lethal themselves.

    Possibly-lethal force simply cannot be justified when the subject is an unarmed 10 year old.
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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nice strawman there.

    It would be better if police did not treat tasers as compliance tools, but rather as alternatives to lethal force. Like rubber bullets - you only use them when you need to, because they are very likely to cause injury and can even be lethal themselves.

    Possibly-lethal force simply cannot be justified when the subject is an unarmed 10 year old.
    Did they kill the kid or cause serious injury to him by using a taser on him or was that just a strawman?

    One would presume they thought it needed to use the taser or they probably would not have used it.

    .

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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nice strawman there.

    It would be better if police did not treat tasers as compliance tools, but rather as alternatives to lethal force. Like rubber bullets - you only use them when you need to, because they are very likely to cause injury and can even be lethal themselves.

    Possibly-lethal force simply cannot be justified when the subject is an unarmed 10 year old.
    Here's what choices the officers have when dealing with unruly juveniles.

    A) Should i physically overpower and restrain a kicking and screaming juvenile and take the chance of spraining or bruising his arms and legs in the process?(which often happens in these cases)

    B) Should i peppers spray the juvenile?

    C) Should i bludgeon the juvenile with my knight stick?

    D) Should i pull out my 9mm and put a couple lead rounds in the juvenile?

    E) Should i shoot my Taser gun at the juvenile which might subdue him into a cardiac arrest?

    F) Should i 'drive Tase' the juvenile to get his attention and comply with our demands?
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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child | Justice News Flash | JusticeNewsFlash Release



    Old women, teenage girls, unarmed people who aren't being violent, and now a 10-year old?

    I think police need some better clarification on use of tasers. It's supposed to be an alternative to lethal force, not a compliance tool for uncooperative people. Tasers can and do kill people, using one on a child is reckless.

    A 10-year old? Are you telling me two police officers can't restrain a child without risking his death? I'm not a big guy, but I've never met a 10-year old who I couldn't overpower. Two guys, both likely bigger than me, who are trained to do this shouldn't have trouble.

    There's also no circumstance in which a police officer should slap anybody. It doesn't serve any purpose in apprehension.

    I want to see pictures of this child-hercules that couldn't be stopped without a few thousand volts of electricity.
    This is far less serious a matter than is being made of it. Here are some givens...

    1-It wasnt the first time they had to respond to the child
    2-The child is behavior disordered and wasnt responding to ANY attempts to calm him down.
    3-This was probably the least harmful option and my guess is the police wont need to be called to respond a thirds time.

    The simple fact is that a lot of kids (whether it is from bad parenting or some physiological disorder) behave like rotten little monsters with no fear of consequences. Short of seriously bitch slapping the little kid, I suspect the officers felt this was the most efficient and safest means of controlling him. Its unfortunate...but then neither the day care center nor the police should have been placed in the situation of having to deal with someone elses bewhavior disordered little kid. Maybe he needs to be on meds. Maybe the family needs some serious parenting and behavior modification classes. I can guarantee you...if the officers had wrestled with this kid it is highly likely that it would have ended up in a broken arm...its not uncommon in juvenile facilities.

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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    If they physically try to subdue him and he ends up injured, they're considered to be brutes.

    If they do nothing, they're negligent.

    If they subdue him with a stun gun, they're abhorrent.

    Sounds like today police are in constant no-win situations. There's never a right answer. Hell, they get sent to court when they use stun guns for obviously legitmiate reasons.

    We're about two steps from just ignoring the police and making everyone handle their own issues.

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    Re: Two Martinsville, IN police deputies suspended after using stun gun on child

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    If they physically try to subdue him and he ends up injured, they're considered to be brutes.

    If they do nothing, they're negligent.

    If they subdue him with a stun gun, they're abhorrent.

    Sounds like today police are in constant no-win situations. There's never a right answer. Hell, they get sent to court when they use stun guns for obviously legitmiate reasons.

    We're about two steps from just ignoring the police and making everyone handle their own issues.
    There is no legitimate reason for using a stun gun on a 10 year old kid. None. Ever. Period.

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