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Thread: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

  1. #51
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    My behavior does not warrant imputing to me false motivations so that you can inject strawmen...
    I actually didn't characterize your motivations in any way.

    I characterized your behavior.

    Talk about strawman...
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I actually didn't characterize your motivations in any way.

    I characterized your behavior.

    Talk about strawman...
    You didn't attempt to impute a motivation into my posts here?

    You're more interested in trapping me than you are in talking to me.
    That's not fabricating a motivation and then attributing it to me as the basis for my comments?

    No?

    Really?

    I must be nuts!

    This conversation is over.

  3. #53
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    You didn't attempt to impute a motivation into my posts here?
    Nope, as I said, I characterized your behavior.

    Your responses to me, just like this one, quickly became focused on splitting hairs in an attempt to score points on me, instead of responding to my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    That's not fabricating a motivation and then attributing it to me as the basis for my comments?

    No?

    Really?
    No, really, it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    This conversation is over.
    Oh, thank goodness. You were running out of hairs to split, I was wondering what you were going to split next.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #54
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    LOL...I see. So powers not specifically granted to Congress are only reserved to the States only if the States act on those powers? Otherwise, the power is just granted to the national government?
    Basically it is saying the State has a right to fill in the gaps based on their particular interests and conditions. But it also gives the Congress the ability to expand its capabilities based on changing needs and conditions. Hope that explains it better.


    You're rendering the 10th Amendment completely meaningless. So you really believe that the 10th is nothing but a vehicle to grant power to the national government that was never intended to be granted to the national government?
    \

    It is a vehicle that allows us to adjust the constitution based on the nations needs. The constitutions power comes from its ability to adjust to the changes in society, but still maintaining some core principles.



    As citizens we are required to purchase a good/service or we face sanction by the government. Is that not a condition of citizenship?
    Just like were are sanctioned by the goverment to fill in the census or face loss of funds and representation to our commmunity. If the federal goverment forced people to pledge allegiance to Obama, or face jail or expulsion then I can see your point. Taxing people who are costing other people money because they fail to insure themselves, is really a fair practice.


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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Basically it is saying the State has a right to fill in the gaps based on their particular interests and conditions. But it also gives the Congress the ability to expand its capabilities based on changing needs and conditions. Hope that explains it better.
    While I'm sure that those in power would interpret the 10th Amendment as such, I do not believe that that was how its use was intended.

    The Constitution was written to be a document which explicitly defined the powers of the federal government. The 10th Amendment was put in place as a reminder that anything not explicitly granted to the feds was beyond the power of the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    It is a vehicle that allows us to adjust the constitution based on the nations needs. The constitutions power comes from its ability to adjust to the changes in society, but still maintaining some core principles.
    I do not believe that it is Congress' job to "adjust" the Constitution. That's what the amendment process is for.

    That said, I do think that the Constitution is far too static, especially now with as many citizens and state government as we have, and Thomas Jefferson would've agreed:

    "Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right. It may be said, that the succeeding generation exercising, in fact, the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to nineteen years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be, indeed, if every form of government were so perfectly contrived, that the will of the majority could always be obtained, fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves; their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents; and other impediments arise, so as to prove to every practical man, that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal."

    --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:459, Papers 15:396
    Jefferson on Politics & Government: Amending the Constitution
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #56
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    ]While I'm sure that those in power would interpret the 10th Amendment as such, I do not believe that that was how its use was intended.

    The Constitution was written to be a document which explicitly defined the powers of the federal government. The 10th Amendment was put in place as a reminder that anything not explicitly granted to the feds was beyond the power of the government.
    How do you define the words "Or the people"? What do you think that means?


    I do not believe that it is Congress' job to "adjust" the Constitution. That's what the amendment process is for.
    Amending the constitution is pretty diffucult, the tenth Amendment gives the flexibility to the goverment, so that they can best represent the people. Likei Health care, instead of creating sweaping amendments that would expand the power of the goverment, the goverment can make adjustments through use of the 10th amendment. And if the change conflicts with another constitutional concept then the Supreme court can strike it down, the Supreme court cannot strike down an amendment.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    How do you define the words "Or the people"? What do you think that means?
    Literally, as in individual citizens.

    I don't interpret that as creating a cycle by which the federal government, as it represents "the people," is able to use the fact that it represents "the people" to expand the powers of the federal government.

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Amending the constitution is pretty diffucult, the tenth Amendment gives the flexibility to the goverment, so that they can best represent the people.
    My whole point is that the 10th Amendment doesn't give any flexibility to the government, it explicitly limits the power of the government.

    Do you have any prescedent, court decisions and the like, where the 10th Amendment is thusly invoked?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Literally, as in individual citizens.

    I don't interpret that as creating a cycle by which the federal government, as it represents "the people," is able to use the fact that it represents "the people" to expand the powers of the federal government.
    It does not say the individual, it says the people, who are directly represented by the Congress. Thus the power is retained by the Congress. It is a logical conclusion based on the legal language in the amendment.


    Do you have any prescedent, court decisions and the like, where the 10th Amendment is thusly invoked?
    I dont think it was ever challenged.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  9. #59
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    It does not say the individual, it says the people, who are directly represented by the Congress. Thus the power is retained by the Congress. It is a logical conclusion based on the legal language in the amendment.
    "The people" were not represented by Congress in full at the time the Amendment was put in place. At the time, the Senate represented the states. They were essentially ambassadors from the various state governments to the national government, installed to keep the national government from overreaching its authority and usurping the power of the individual states.

    Since it requires both the House and the Senate to pass a bill that then goes before the President for signature or veto, I believe your interpretation of the Amendment is erroneous.

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    I dont think it was ever challenged.
    Okay, let me rephrase.

    Can you cite a court decision that ever authorized the feds to do anything based on your interpretation of the 10th Amendment?

    In other words, is this your opinion, or is it established precedent?

    I suspect it's your opinion and nothing more, seeing as how so much of what the feds have done were justified by invocation of the commerce clause and not the 10th Amendment.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #60
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Weird where the thread goes when the OP is so easily proven to be nonsense.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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