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Thread: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

  1. #41
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, I'm just sticking to arguing the relevant facts.
    Which facts? You're whining that there's so much else that is unconstitutional that it is no longer reasonable to argue against the constitutionality of any legislative action.

    If we were going to confine the government only to what it is constitutionally authorized to do, it would be microscopic compared to its current size. Since it won't permit itself to be pared down in that fashion, the point about what is constitutional and what isn't, in and of itself, is moot.
    Aaaand, like I said, you've rolled over on what is constitutiuonal or not. But you keep saying this, yet deny that you've rolled over.

    You're right.

    I'm saying the constitutionality of "Obamacare" is a moot point.


    I cannot reason out of you what has not been reasoned in.

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    When I said that "Congress has not," I was clearly responding to your comment, "even if Congress did make health care a requirement for maintaining or obtaining citizenship".

    But you just responded as if I was arguing that the national government can enact laws affecting naturalization.

    Like I already said, be my guest if you want to argue strawmen.
    Oh, boy, here we go.

    You were arguing rather vehemently that Congress has made health care a requirement for citizenship. As such, when you simply said "Congress has not" in response to:

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    By the way, you've ignored the point about how, even if Congress did make health care a requirement for maintaining or obtaining citizenship, they'd be within their rights to do so.
    I thought "Congress has not" meant "Congress has not the authority."

    I wasn't aware you had done a complete 180 on a dime, my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    BTW - you are aware what naturalization is, right? And how that is distinguished from citizenship as a right of birth or blood, right?
    I'm fully aware. The authority to regulate naturalization includes the authority to redefine what it means to be a natural-born citizen.

    The only place in the Constitution where a difference is recognized between a natural-born citizen and someone who becomes a citizen after birth is with respect to eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    So, even if you wanted to play with your strawman argument re: Congress enacting legislation that revokes citizenship for failing to purchase health care insurance
    Um, you were the one arguing that Congress had made health insurance a condition of citizenship, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    ...the power to establish a unform naturalization process would not constitutionalize such legislation. Just sayin'...
    Yeah, actually, it would.

    Just sayin'.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #43
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Which facts?
    The fact that the Congresscritter in question didn't say he doesn't care about the Constitution. The fact that his encounter with those people was obviously set-up. The fact that the video edited out what came before that headed exchange. The fact that they were more interested in badgering him into saying something dumb than they were in actually talking to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    You're whining that there's so much else that is unconstitutional that it is no longer reasonable to argue against the constitutionality of any legislative action.
    Don't make this personal by taking shots at me. My point is justified. If we're going to restrain the government to its constitutionally defined role, then let's do it with everything, rather than using it as a weak-ass argument against regulation of health care and health insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Aaaand, like I said, you've rolled over on what is constitutiuonal or not. But you keep saying this, yet deny that you've rolled over.
    No.

    I don't care.

    There's a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post


    I cannot reason out of you what has not been reasoned in.
    You're not reasoning, that's part of the problem. You're just doing what the people in that video did. You're more interested in trapping me than you are in talking to me.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #44
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Oh, boy, here we go.

    You were arguing rather vehemently that Congress has made health care a requirement for citizenship. As such, when you simply said "Congress has not" in response to:
    No, I said "a condition of citizenship." I even elaborated to mean that Obamacare requires citizens to purchase insurance. I further elaborated what I meant by condition. There should've been no confusion.

    I thought "Congress has not" meant "Congress has not the authority."
    Then you've been disabused of such a misinterpretation.

    I wasn't aware you had done a complete 180 on a dime, my bad.
    I didn't. You misinterpreted me, even after I clarified my point.

    I'm fully aware. The authority to regulate naturalization includes the authority to redefine what it means to be a natural-born citizen.
    It does?

    The only place in the Constitution where a difference is recognized between a natural-born citizen and someone who becomes a citizen after birth is with respect to eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States.
    The US law on citizenship by birth incorporates two traditional legal principles:

    --ius soli ("right of the soil"), under which citizenship results from being born in the US, and

    --ius sanguinis ("right of the blood"), under which citizenship results from having an American parent or parents.

    Please explain how this is no different from the naturalization process...please?

    Um, you were the one arguing that Congress had made health insurance a condition of citizenship, not me.
    And I clarified, twice, what I meant. You were sufficiently made aware that I was not arguing that citizenship would be revoked. There should've been no confusion on that point. Any confusion that did exist was deliberate.

    Yeah, actually, it would.

    Just sayin'.
    Please, by all means, explain, how the authority to establish a uniform naturalization process authorizes the national government to revoke citizenship for not purchasing a private good/service...make it interesting at least.

  5. #45
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The fact that the Congresscritter in question didn't say he doesn't care about the Constitution. The fact that his encounter with those people was obviously set-up. The fact that the video edited out what came before that headed exchange. The fact that they were more interested in badgering him into saying something dumb than they were in actually talking to him.
    You might have been talking about, but I wasn't. Continue with your bad self.

    Don't make this personal by taking shots at me. My point is justified. If we're going to restrain the government to its constitutionally defined role, then let's do it with everything, rather than using it as a weak-ass argument against regulation of health care and health insurance.
    I'm not arguing this point. I am saying that your perception that I don't is not an argument about anything at all.

    No.

    I don't care.

    There's a difference.
    You keep telling yourself that...

    You're not reasoning, that's part of the problem. You're just doing what the people in that video did. You're more interested in trapping me than you are in talking to me.
    Uh-huh...do you always invent your opponent's motivation so you can argue with them or with yourself?

  6. #46
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    No, I said "a condition of citizenship." I even elaborated to mean that Obamacare requires citizens to purchase insurance. I further elaborated what I meant by condition. There should've been no confusion.
    A requirement of citizenship and a condition of citizenship are the same thing. You're just mincing words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    It does?
    Upon what basis do you argue that it doesn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    The US law on citizenship by birth incorporates two traditional legal principles:

    --ius soli ("right of the soil"), under which citizenship results from being born in the US, and

    --ius sanguinis ("right of the blood"), under which citizenship results from having an American parent or parents.

    Please explain how this is no different from the naturalization process...please?
    The fact that this is federal law and has not been ruled unconstitutional proves my point, that Congress has the right to define (and as such, redefine) what it means to be a natural-born citizen.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #47
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Uh-huh...do you always invent your opponent's motivation so you can argue with them or with yourself?
    I'm simply drawing conclusions based on your behavior in this thread, at least towards me.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    A requirement of citizenship and a condition of citizenship are the same thing. You're just mincing words.
    Mincing words...I sufficiently qualified what I meant.

    Upon what basis do you argue that it doesn't?
    I'm not. I was asking you to explain your comment.

    The fact that this is federal law and has not been ruled unconstitutional proves my point, that Congress has the right to define (and as such, redefine) what it means to be a natural-born citizen.
    Lets not go down this road. US law in this area germinated from ancient legal concepts. It's nothing at all similar to enacting Obamacare...

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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'm simply drawing conclusions based on your behavior in this thread, at least towards me.
    My behavior does not warrant imputing to me false motivations so that you can inject strawmen...

  10. #50
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    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Mincing words...I sufficiently qualified what I meant.
    No, you were splitting hairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    I'm not. I was asking you to explain your comment.
    Well, if you're not arguing that it doesn't, then I guess we have nothing to argue about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Lets not go down this road. US law in this area germinated from ancient legal concepts. It's nothing at all similar to enacting Obamacare...
    Either they had the authority to write that law, or they did not.

    If they did, I'm right.

    If they didn't, you're right.

    Simple.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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