Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 89

Thread: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

  1. #31
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    The funny thing is, if Congress made health insurance a prerequisite for maintaining / obtaining citizenship, their Constitutional authority to do so would be unquestionable.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #32
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    04-13-10 @ 12:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Are citizens not required to purchase health care insurance? How is that not a condition of citizenship? Your citizenship triggers an obligation to do something. Citizenship stipluates this obligation, no? Maybe we should refer to the definitions of "condition"?

    •a state at a particular time; "a condition (or state) of disrepair"; "the current status of the arms negotiations"
    •an assumption on which rests the validity or effect of something else
    •a mode of being or form of existence of a person or thing; "the human condition"
    •establish a conditioned response
    •circumstance: information that should be kept in mind when making a decision; "another consideration is the time it would take"
    •discipline: develop (children's) behavior by instruction and practice; especially to teach self-control; "Parents must discipline their children"; "Is this dog trained?"
    •the state of (good) health (especially in the phrases `in condition' or `in shape' or `out of condition' or `out of shape')
    •stipulate: specify as a condition or requirement in a contract or agreement; make an express demand or provision in an agreement; "The will stipulates that she can live in the house for the rest of her life"; "The contract stipulates the dates of the payments"
    •an illness, disease, or other medical problem; "a heart condition"; "a skin condition"
    •put into a better state; "he conditions old cars"
    •apply conditioner to in order to make smooth and shiny; "I condition my hair after washing it"
    •the procedure that is varied in order to estimate a variable's effect by comparison with a control condition

  3. #33
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Oh, so we're ready to simply say that whatever the national government does it is constitutional?
    No, that's not what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    You are, indeed, simply rolling over.
    No, that's not what I'm doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    And, btw, the constitutionality of any legislative action is, you know, a merit of the legsialtion.
    I agree, but there is so much federal law which is unconstitutional that you either need to have more than that to make a serious argument against "Obamacare," or you need to be rattling your sabre about all that other stuff just as loudly.

    As a nation, we don't do that. Even the politically active don't do that.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #34
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Are citizens not required to purchase health care insurance? How is that not a condition of citizenship?
    Because you don't lose your citizenship if you don't have it.

    /argument
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #35
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    By the way, you've ignored the point about how, even if Congress did make health care a requirement for maintaining or obtaining citizenship, they'd be within their rights to do so.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #36
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    04-13-10 @ 12:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    By the way, you've ignored the point about how, even if Congress did make health care a requirement for maintaining or obtaining citizenship, they'd be within their rights to do so.
    Congress has not. So why debate it? If you want to argue with strawmen, be my guest.

  7. #37
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    04-13-10 @ 12:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, that's not what I said.

    No, that's not what I'm doing.
    It is precisely what you're doing. The constitutionality of legislation or government action is a first principle. There's no:

    I agree, but there is so much federal law which is unconstitutional that you either need to have more than that to make a serious argument against "Obamacare," or you need to be rattling your sabre about all that other stuff just as loudly.

    As a nation, we don't do that. Even the politically active don't do that.
    Your perception that I or anyone is not being loud enough about x, y, or z is not an argument in favor of the constitutionality and legitimacy of Obamacare.

  8. #38
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Congress has not. So why debate it? If you want to argue with strawmen, be my guest.
    As quoted earlier in the thread:

    Section. 8.

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof
    Um, yeah, they do.

    That said, they haven't made health care a requirement for citizenship. I'm just telling you that if they did, you wouldn't have a constitutional leg to stand on.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #39
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    It is precisely what you're doing.
    No, I'm just sticking to arguing the relevant facts. If we were going to confine the government only to what it is constitutionally authorized to do, it would be microscopic compared to its current size. Since it won't permit itself to be pared down in that fashion, the point about what is constitutional and what isn't, in and of itself, is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Your perception that I or anyone is not being loud enough about x, y, or z is not an argument in favor of the constitutionality and legitimacy of Obamacare.
    You're right.

    I'm saying the constitutionality of "Obamacare" is a moot point.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #40
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    04-13-10 @ 12:27 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Congressman Caught on Video: I dont care about the Constitution

    When I said that "Congress has not," I was clearly responding to your comment, "even if Congress did make health care a requirement for maintaining or obtaining citizenship".

    But you just responded as if I was arguing that the national government can enact laws affecting naturalization.

    Like I already said, be my guest if you want to argue strawmen.

    BTW - you are aware what naturalization is, right? And how that is distinguished from citizenship as a right of birth or blood, right?

    So, even if you wanted to play with your strawman argument re: Congress enacting legislation that revokes citizenship for failing to purchase health care insurance...the power to establish a unform naturalization process would not constitutionalize such legislation. Just sayin'...

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •