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Thread: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

  1. #151
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    But if as you admit, voters are ignorant, then democracy in any form is a stupid idea.
    How did you reach that conclusion? Voters are ignorant about this subject. That does not logically conclude voters are ignorant entirely on all subjects everywhere. You jumped the gun on that one without any logical path to follow.

    Whether you like it or not, the fact that a majority opposes the bill will have future consequences. So ignoring it because you think people are stupid doesn't make much sense.
    Sure it will. But we also must realize that a poll where the majority are against something they don't understand is not exactly a good reference as to whether the bill is bad or good.

    I made the reference to thermal depolymerization because it shows people discuss things they have no understanding of. Navy cannot point out the difference between the bill and a milk cow. Does that mean the bill should be repealed?

    None of which changes the fact that you were wrong to compare it to auto insurance, which was my point.
    Come again? How so?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #152
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious child View Post
    did you even read that post you quoted?

    Tell me navy, why should i be forced to pay for the costs of others who refuse to cover those costs they incur?

    bam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  3. #153
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Hey Chief, did you tell me a short while back that military retiree's had "Tricare?" Did that take the place of Champus? Is Tricare available to the public on the open market?

    How does it work these days? Can you pick your own insurance provider and doctors, and whatnot, and the government participates in all or part of the tab?

    Or is Tricare a government (read:socialist) ran insurance? What's Tricare all about? What are the insurance options of a retiree?

    If I'm being too nosey, I apologize.
    In case he doesn't answer....
    I have tricare prime, costs an extra $500 per year or so for me and the wife.
    Under 65, we go to Luke AFB for routine stuff, and they refer us if a specialist is needed. They are very willing to use civilian specialists, as opposed to HMO type companies who try their best to keep you away from specialists..
    Regular Tricare is free for military retirees.
    Veterans Administration medical is for non-retirees, but retirees can use VA hospitals. There are copays involved in VA and Tricare, but they are low.
    Next year, I turn 65, and will have Medicare, with Tricare for Life covering Part B.
    Military Retirees don't need part C or whatever to cover drug costs, as most drugs are free from the military hospitals, or you can pay a very few bucks to have them mailed to your house if you have a long term need for medications. My wife gets her cholesterol meds mailed to her, 90 day supply at a time, for $3.
    My PD med, Azilect, is much more expensive in the civiliam market (one pill a day, at $7 per pill), but I pay $9 for a 3 month supply.
    Retirees get good care, at very minimal costs.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  4. #154
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post

    bam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Even worse, why should my premiums and taxes be taken, without my approval or even knowledge and used for such purposes?

    My premiums are SUPPOSE to be pooled in my appropriate risk pool. Not taken out and used to pay for the uninsured. My total available funds drop.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #155
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    In case he doesn't answer....
    I have tricare prime, costs an extra $500 per year or so for me and the wife.
    Under 65, we go to Luke AFB for routine stuff, and they refer us if a specialist is needed. They are very willing to use civilian specialists, as opposed to HMO type companies who try their best to keep you away from specialists..
    Regular Tricare is free for military retirees.
    Veterans Administration medical is for non-retirees, but retirees can use VA hospitals. There are copays involved in VA and Tricare, but they are low.
    Next year, I turn 65, and will have Medicare, with Tricare for Life covering Part B.
    Military Retirees don't need part C or whatever to cover drug costs, as most drugs are free from the military hospitals, or you can pay a very few bucks to have them mailed to your house if you have a long term need for medications. My wife gets her cholesterol meds mailed to her, 90 day supply at a time, for $3.
    My PD med, Azilect, is much more expensive in the civiliam market (one pill a day, at $7 per pill), but I pay $9 for a 3 month supply.
    Retirees get good care, at very minimal costs.
    All due respect Utah, because our military retiree's deserve the best we have to offer, but isn't that, pretty much, by definition, a brand of the "socialist" insurance my esteemed collegue rails against? Is he saying to me that he enjoys, or despises, his own "socialist" health care?

    The message seems rather mixed to me. Please clarify.
    Last edited by Captain America; 04-03-10 at 09:17 PM.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  6. #156
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How did you reach that conclusion? Voters are ignorant about this subject. That does not logically conclude voters are ignorant entirely on all subjects everywhere. You jumped the gun on that one without any logical path to follow.
    How is this issue different from every other? Don't just say "it's complex," because most issues are complex.

    Sure it will. But we also must realize that a poll where the majority are against something they don't understand is not exactly a good reference as to whether the bill is bad or good.
    Did anyone say that it is?

    I made the reference to thermal depolymerization because it shows people discuss things they have no understanding of. Navy cannot point out the difference between the bill and a milk cow. Does that mean the bill should be repealed?
    And is thermal depolymerization a huge political issue that will affect many people's lives? Is it subject to the democratic process? If so, then public opinion of it would matter.

    Come again? How so?
    Because nobody is forced to buy a car. Remember when I said that?

  7. #157
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    How is this issue different from every other? Don't just say "it's complex," because most issues are complex.
    Tell me, does the perception of the president's behavior on the economy exceed several thousand pages?

    Asking voters if they think the country is on the right path is not the same as asking them if a 1,000+ page bill should be repealed.

    Did anyone say that it is?
    No, but that's still my point.

    And is thermal depolymerization a huge political issue that will affect many people's lives? Is it subject to the democratic process? If so, then public opinion of it would matter.
    If it takes off, it could very well solve our liquid fuel, food waste, radioactive waste and chemical/biological weapon storage issues all in one. I take it you've never heard of it eh?

    Because nobody is forced to buy a car. Remember when I said that?
    Except that you ignore my response to that.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #158
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Tell me, does the perception of the president's behavior on the economy exceed several thousand pages?

    Asking voters if they think the country is on the right path is not the same as asking them if a 1,000+ page bill should be repealed.
    You're right, asking if they think the country is on the right path is a meaningless question, whereas asking them if they think a bill that their elected representatives have passed and that will hugely impact their personal lives should be repealed is clear-cut and an extremely important statistic.

    No, but that's still my point.
    Then your point is a worthless straw man.

    If it takes off, it could very well solve our liquid fuel, food waste, radioactive waste and chemical/biological weapon storage issues all in one. I take it you've never heard of it eh?
    Then if it takes off, people's opinions of it will matter. And if it takes off, they will form opinions of it.

    Except that you ignore my response to that.
    Except you ignore the fact that your response to that is irrelevant. You can defend mandated health insurance all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that when it was pointed out to you that nobody had ever been forced to buy something before, you used car insurance to refute that point. I only pointed out that your rebuttal doesn't work, and you haven't argued against that.

  9. #159
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You're right, asking if they think the country is on the right path is a meaningless question, whereas asking them if they think a bill that their elected representatives have passed and that will hugely impact their personal lives should be repealed is clear-cut and an extremely important statistic.
    Sometimes I wonder if you post high. Asking people about a subject matter in which they do not have a proper understanding of is kind silly from the perspective if the subject is to be removed.

    Then your point is a worthless straw man.
    Only to you.

    Then if it takes off, people's opinions of it will matter. And if it takes off, they will form opinions of it.
    So opinions that hold no facts are to be used in repealing or legislating bills?

    Except you ignore the fact that your response to that is irrelevant. You can defend mandated health insurance all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that when it was pointed out to you that nobody had ever been forced to buy something before, you used car insurance to refute that point. I only pointed out that your rebuttal doesn't work, and you haven't argued against that.
    Fine, no one had to be forced to buy something before. That doesn't change the underlying reason for doing it. Which I haven't gotten any response to in either threat aside from your asinine post which I labeled "in the Roman times..."

    I do find it amusing watching Conservatives support free riding.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #160
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    Re: 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

    Sometimes I wonder if you post high.
    Nobody here has to wonder about whether or not I post high.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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