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Marine officer: Gays, straights shouldn't share housing

Politics101 said:
Good point. That would be a stereotype to 'mesh' both together as one. It would absurd to think gay men would be allowed (or want to) wear female dress uniforms.
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Except on Wog day, but that is a whole different thing, and so badly PCed it's just not the same any more.
 
Redress said:
You have never done a Wog day I take it...

Seriously, do you expect a lot of men dressing in drag due to allowing gays to serve openly? Do you understand the difference between being gay, and being a transvestite?
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Wog Day is the official U.S. Navy 'ceremony' that deals with crossing the equator,
what stupidy were you trying to Insinuate

I hope you're not suggestion that we allow open gays in the military but not transvestites.
 
KOV03 said:
Wog Day is the official U.S. Navy 'ceremony' that deals with crossing the equator,
what stupidy were you trying to Insinuate

I hope you're not suggestion that we allow open gays in the military but not transvestites.
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Straw man trolling.
 
KOV03 said:
Wog Day is the official U.S. Navy 'ceremony' that deals with crossing the equator,
what stupidy were you trying to Insinuate

I hope you're not suggestion that we allow open gays in the military but not transvestites.
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Wog day inevitably features guys dressed in drag, and more recently, women dressing as guys. Somehow it does not hurt morale, and in fact does the opposite.

Uniforms in the navy are based on sex, this would not change. Got any rational arguments?
 
Redress said:
Except on Wog day, but that is a whole different thing, and so badly PCed it's just not the same any more.
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I think Wog day is strictly a US Navy thing, I've never heard of such a thing in the Marine Corps... In either case, I still think it would cause negative implications to allow gays to serve openly in the Marines.

The only real way to solve this issue would be to hold a vote for the entire US military... if the men and women who are actually serving their country don't mind the change, then neither would I. Granted, I'm also one who has served, and based on my experience it would probably not be a good thing to sexualize the Marine Corps.
 
KOV03 said:
Only born a man but I am gay and in navy of course I can wear the dress uniform.Anything else would be discrimination
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First you're wrong to assume that all, if any, homosexual service members are actually cross-dressers. Second, not all cross-dressers are homosexual. Many cross-dressing men are heterosexual. Sexuality and gender identity are totally different things. A person's gender identity does not determine their sexuality and a person's sexuality does not determine their gender identity. Cross-dressing is a completely different issue than homosexuality.

Personally I don't have a problem with cross-dressers, at all. My brother is a heterosexual cross-dresser. He was in the Army when he realized that he preferred to dress like a woman. He did not dress as a woman anywhere where it would be disrespectful to the military. A few of his friends in the Army knew about his cross-dressing and did not have a problem with it. They considered it his thing, and it had no affect on his job performance. Many cross-dressers in the military are content to keep that part of their life private, and it should have absolutely no affect on their military career. Many of the uniforms that military members wear are pretty close to looking unisex anyway. Most cross-dressers would not feel a need to distinguish between which uniform they have to wear for the military. If there is actually some cross-dressers who feel that this is an issue the military needs to address, then that should be left up to them to address it, because it is not a part of the gays in the military issue.
 
Politics101 said:
The only real way to solve this issue would be to hold a vote for the entire US military... if the men and women who are actually serving their country don't mind the change, then neither would I. Granted, I'm also one who has served, and based on my experience it would probably not be a good thing to sexualize the Marine Corps.
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Would you have wanted the all-white services in the 1940s to vote on whether to allow blacks in?
 
Politics101 said:
I think Wog day is strictly a US Navy thing, I've never heard of such a thing in the Marine Corps...
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Oh, almost forgot this dig - Marines are just Navy guys anyway.:mrgreen:
 
Redress said:
Wog day inevitably features guys dressed in drag, and more recently, women dressing as guys.

Uniforms in the navy are based on sex, this would not change. Got any rational arguments?
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So it is a rite and they joke around.
Yet can you tell me if we allow gays how can we say no to transvestites
 
Politics101 said:
I think Wog day is strictly a US Navy thing, I've never heard of such a thing in the Marine Corps... In either case, I still think it would cause negative implications to allow gays to serve openly in the Marines.

The only real way to solve this issue would be to hold a vote for the entire US military... if the men and women who are actually serving their country don't mind the change, then neither would I. Granted, I'm also one who has served, and based on my experience it would probably not be a good thing to sexualize the Marine Corps.
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The Marines on board our ships took place in Wog day, and the Shellback marines where people to look out for on that day. Wog day is also celebrated by the British Navy. Crippler might be able to answer if Marine ships celebrate it as well, but I suspect so.

The military has never been asked to vote on changes, and it's a good thing. Military personnel tend to resist change. Lord knows I did. The people who will make the decision are those who should make the decision, the military brass, the pentagon, and the US congress.

Allowing gays to serve openly would not "sexualize" the military. Sex would still be banned on ship and on duty and in barracks. The difference would be that gays would not have to serve in fear.
 
misterman said:
Would you have wanted the all-white services in the 1940s to vote on whether to allow blacks in?
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No, that's different. That would be racist.

But it does bring up an intriguing point. I guess the difference is that for openly gay men to serve in the military, it requires a completely different set of guidelines because openly gay men are and will inevitably become attracted to some of their fellow soldiers -- regardless of whether or not they ever admit it.

Heck, for me, there were a few women I served with who I found absolutely gorgeous! Most of them I wouldn't tell them, because I wanted to be respectful and remain professional. And it certainly would never be allowed to force them to shower or sleep with other Marines including myself, mainly because the military should not be sexualized.

So, what would possibly make it OK to force straight men to shower and sleep with openly gay men, who may or may not be attracted to you? That would make me so uncomfortable that it would certainly cause issues.
 
roguenuke said:
First you're wrong to assume that all, if any, homosexual service members are actually cross-dressers. Second, not all cross-dressers are homosexual.

If there is actually some cross-dressers who feel that this is an issue the military needs to address, then that should be left up to them to address it, because it is not a part of the gays in the military issue.
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you always have assumptions assume this assume that and then blah blah blah blah.
You say they need to address the cross-dressers also, and it should be left to the military. To me the issue is identical to gays in the military. It's all become political and not left to the military.
 
We do not make laws based on thoughts. We make laws and regulations based on actions. If some one gay or strait does something inappropriate, then actions should be taken to correct the behavior. Thoughts the military cannot control, nor should it.
 
Redress said:
We do not make laws based on thoughts. We make laws and regulations based on actions. If some one gay or strait does something inappropriate, then actions should be taken to correct the behavior. Thoughts the military cannot control, nor should it.
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are you going to ignore the transvestite
question. Should we stop the discrimination against transvestites in the military.
 
Politics101 said:
No, that's different. That would be racist.

But it does bring up an intriguing point. I guess the difference is that for openly gay men to serve in the military, it requires a completely different set of guidelines because openly gay men are and will inevitably become attracted to some of their fellow soldiers -- regardless of whether or not they ever admit it.

Heck, for me, there were a few women I served with who I found absolutely gorgeous! Most of them I wouldn't tell them, because I wanted to be respectful and remain professional. And it certainly would never be allowed to force them to shower or sleep with other Marines including myself, mainly because the military should not be sexualized.

So, what would possibly make it OK to force straight men to shower and sleep with openly gay men, who may or may not be attracted to you? That would make me so uncomfortable that it would certainly cause issues.
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If you are uncomfortable sleeping/showering with openly gay Marines/soldiers then that is your issue. Especially since you should realize that there are gay guys in the military now, and there could be gay guys showering/sleeping in the same area as you do now (or did, if you aren't in now).
 
KOV03 said:
are you going to ignore the transvestite
question. Should we stop the discrimination against transvestites in the military.
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How come every argument you ever make is an appeal to the absurd that obsesses over trannies?
 
I always thought that those who are straight would WANT to know who was gay - so they can avoid being too close to them in various ways.

I'm surprised that people want them to keep it quiet.
 
roguenuke said:
If you are uncomfortable sleeping/showering with openly gay Marines/soldiers then that is your issue. Especially since you should realize that there are gay guys in the military now, and there could be gay guys showering/sleeping in the same area as you do now (or did, if you aren't in now).
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I already answered exactly the same comment/question about this issue, here. It's about ten pages (or so) back, not too far...
 
KOV03 said:
are you going to ignore the transvestite
question. Should we stop the discrimination against transvestites in the military.
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klinger.jpg
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I always thought that those who are straight would WANT to know who was gay - so they can avoid being too close to them in various ways.

I'm surprised that people want them to keep it quiet.
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It's not about avoiding your fellow soldiers, it's about keeping it professional and strictly on the mission. If the mission was to discover each everyone one of your fellow soldiers sexuality, then I guess it would make sense. Also - I'd rather not know and not feel uncomfortable to the point where I'd actually avoid certain situations with someone.

If I'm showering with a gay person, I'd rather not know they were gay and not know that there's a chance they are attracted to me. If you're not gay, just imagine yourself showering with someone you know is gay and quite possibly attracted to your hard-bodied, military physique. If the gay man even looked in your direction, the level of awkwardness would skyrocket. Why would anyone, including gay men, want those who they are around to feel uncomfortable in a given situation?

I get the feeling that the feeling of uncomfortableness I would have in the above scenario would be exactly the same thing if men and women in the military were forced to shower and sleep together. In terms of sexual preference, it's exactly the same thing.
 
KOV03 said:
you always have assumptions assume this assume that and then blah blah blah blah.
You say they need to address the cross-dressers also, and it should be left to the military. To me the issue is identical to gays in the military. It's all become political and not left to the military.
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Prove that this is a comparative issue to gays serving openly, then we can debate it.

Even checking some cross-dressing websites, most cross-dressers would like to cross-dress in uniform, but can control themselves enough to be happy with just doing it in private, or they underdress. I cannot find a single issue to ever come up dealing with cross-dressing in the military. In fact, I can't even find a case of someone being discharged from the military for being a cross-dresser, when not in uniform. Of course, most cross-dressers are even more secretive about that side of their life than homosexuals, so that may account for it. Society, in general, looks down on cross-dressing especially M2F cross-dressing, even more than it does homosexuality. This is the main reason why people mistakenly believe that all or most cross-dressers must be gay. It is just widely misunderstood everywhere.

Wearing a military uniform is about professionalism, so even if there were cross-dressers that were allowed to cross-dress, they would still be required to wear the uniform of the opposite sex and obey the regulations dealing with wearing the uniform of the opposite sex.
 
Politics101 said:
If I'm showering with a gay person, I'd rather not know they were gay and not know that there's a chance they are attracted to me. If you're not gay, just imagine yourself showering with someone you know is gay and quite possibly attracted to your hard-bodied, military physique.
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Oh great...so we're right back to, "teh gays will eye **** me because I'm so luscious they can't help themselves".

I swear...if you guys only knew how that, in and of itself, makes you so unattractive to start with. It also sounds really, really gay...
 
I guess I just can't understand because I don't have this issue - I've tried imagining how I'd feel if in a similar situation but I can't imagine it would bother me at all.

Likely - if I was possibly being admired by the same sex I'd like my boobs to be balanced and properly seated to complete the 'look but you can't touch' presentation. When you're a bit chubby that's easier said than done. LOL
 
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jallman said:
Oh great...so we're right back to, "teh gays will eye **** me because I'm so luscious they can't help themselves".

I swear...if you guys only knew how that, in and of itself, makes you so unattractive to start with. It also sounds really, really gay...
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Since we are talking about gays and now transvestites, it reminds me of a pre-op tranny I knew when I was 19 who went by the name Ricky(yes, I did have an odd life when I was younger). His comment was something like this "hun, ain't no strait guy around knows how to please me".
 
Politics101 said:
It's not about avoiding your fellow soldiers, it's about keeping it professional and strictly on the mission. If the mission was to discover each everyone one of your fellow soldiers sexuality, then I guess it would make sense. Also - I'd rather not know and not feel uncomfortable to the point where I'd actually avoid certain situations with someone.

If I'm showering with a gay person, I'd rather not know they were gay and not know that there's a chance they are attracted to me. If you're not gay, just imagine yourself showering with someone you know is gay and quite possibly attracted to your hard-bodied, military physique. If the gay man even looked in your direction, the level of awkwardness would skyrocket. Why would anyone, including gay men, want those who they are around to feel uncomfortable in a given situation?

I get the feeling that the feeling of uncomfortableness I would have in the above scenario would be exactly the same thing if men and women in the military were forced to shower and sleep together. In terms of sexual preference, it's exactly the same thing.
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Whenever you want to reply to this post:

Hatuey said:
Easy:

Homosexual behavior due to genetics and environmental factors | Eureka! Science News



BBC NEWS | Health | How homosexuality is 'inherited'



Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture in AllPsych Journal



I showed you mine. Now show me yours. The problem with your argument is that it hinges on the false belief that a person can simply choose to be gay or straight. They can't. No more than you and I can choose to be straight. What we can choose is what lifestyles we want to lead. A person can choose to live a lifestyle of heterosexuality and remain gay. The same goes for a gay person who chooses to live a heterosexual lifestyle. What can not be simply chosen is which sex you are attracted to. This is determined by genetic and environmental factors.



See above.
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:2wave:
 
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