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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ConservaBill View Post
    SORRY this is response to Misterman:

    Welfare of the States..!!!

    Remember Jr. high-school composition? Define the term paragraph then re-read the document with at least that Jr. High level of comprehension...
    Does my graduate-level degree in political science count?

    NO WHERE in the CONSTITUTION does ANY concern of the citizens become a duty of the federal government (or until the 14th)... NO WHERE...
    Really? So you're saying the Constitution has no concern for American citizens at all (up to the 14th)? Hmmmm. It doesn't specifically mention them until then, but even people who got as far as jr. high school composition know that there are different levels of meaning beyond plain written words. Pretending that's not true can lead to all kinds of bizarre conclusions. Such as yours.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Try reading the question.
    Try responding to the facts presented.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So you think that offering the uninsured medical insurance will change personal living habits and what people eat, smoke, or how they exercise? Like all naive individuals you somehow believe this govt. program is going to save money when the reality is no social program has ever cost what was intended, did what was intended, and solved a problem.

    Different day, same old rhetoric coming from supporters of bigger govt. You just don't have a clue as to the true role of govt. when it comes to personal responsibility issues.
    Again, I've never advocated for bigger gov't. I was against forming the Health Services Committee because I believe that the Dept of Health and Humans can handle most if not all of the administrative tasks listed in the health care reform bill just fine. Add more staff, but not another level of bureaucrisy. And I really wish you'd get off this "personal habits" kick. It really shows your bias against people of certain dispositions. As I've said before, not everyone who can't afford health care are lazy or shiftless. Some simply just can't afford it. Be fortunate good fortune befell you where you don't have to worry about things like that. But there are some who do and through no fault of their own just need help. Try being a compassionate human being for a change instead of sounding like some old, angry crouse wrinkle-bag. You might like it and that heart of yours may grow two sizes larger.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-30-10 at 05:46 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Moderator's Warning:
    New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP ideaCease with the baiting and name calling.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, I've never advocated for bigger gov't. I was against forming the Health Services Committee because I believe that the Dept of Health and Humans can handle most if not all of the administrative tasks listed in the health care reform bill just fine. Add more staff, but not another level of bureaucrisy. And I really wish you'd get off this "personal habits" kick. It really shows your bias against people of certain dispositions. As I've said before, not everyone who can't afford health care are lazy or shiftless. Some simply just can't afford it. Be fortunate good fortune befell you where you don't have to worry about things like that. But there are some who do and through no fault of their own just need help. Try being a compassionate human being for a change instead of sounding like some old, angry crouse wrinkle-bag. You might like it and that heart of yours may grow two sizes larger.
    You don't think this healthcare bill grows the size of govt? who administers it and who manages it?

    What bothers me about the pro healthcare crowd is how they use the number 47 million as an attempt to magnify their claims. You and I both know there aren't 47 million people in this country UNABLE to purchase healthcare but that the number of those who cannot afford healthcare insurance is around 10 million or 3% of the population. To cover those 3% who are spread all over the nation we need this bill?

    Ever hear the phrase "charity begins at home"? Home in this case means the local and state governments along with actual charities. It is not the Federal Taxpayer responsibility to fund healthcare insurance but instead personal responsibility first then let the local and states handle the issue.

    My charitable giving isn't at question here nor is it relevant but it is substantial. Yours and my tax liability is going to go up and like with all govt. run programs going to be wasted, and that is the point.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You don't think this healthcare bill grows the size of govt? who administers it and who manages it?

    What bothers me about the pro healthcare crowd is how they use the number 47 million as an attempt to magnify their claims. You and I both know there aren't 47 million people in this country UNABLE to purchase healthcare but that the number of those who cannot afford healthcare insurance is around 10 million or 3% of the population. To cover those 3% who are spread all over the nation we need this bill?

    Ever hear the phrase "charity begins at home"? Home in this case means the local and state governments along with actual charities. It is not the Federal Taxpayer responsibility to fund healthcare insurance but instead personal responsibility first then let the local and states handle the issue.

    My charitable giving isn't at question here nor is it relevant but it is substantial. Yours and my tax liability is going to go up and like with all govt. run programs going to be wasted, and that is the point.
    Here's something positive I found on Medicare. Although I'm conservative I do get scared when I think what could happen if I lost my HC insurance. From my experience the state run HC programs have not been very successful. Our governor in Tenn was in the HC industry before he became governor, so I don't know why, but we've had problems with the cost of our state run HC.

    Here's a link to the article about Medicare:

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...t_is_medicare/

    Excerpt:

    Posted on Jul 29, 2009

    By Marie Cocco

    Happy Birthday, Medicare.

    It’s a fine time—perfect, in fact—to celebrate the government-run, taxpayer-supported colossus in the American health care system that turns 44 this week. Medicare has done all it was supposed to do, and more.

    It thrives despite apocalyptic warnings from its original opponents that “socialized medicine” would hamper doctors, hospitals, patients—perhaps even doom the entire American health care system. Medicare is exceedingly popular and remarkably well-functioning despite its current critics’ claims that it is singularly wasteful, out of control in some never-specified way or, at the very least, holds the potential to bankrupt us all in the next generation.

    Medicare is where political posturing runs headlong into historical truth: It is, along with Social Security, the most successful government program—other than its unrivaled military—that the United States has ever created.

    And it has delivered for elderly people what President Barack Obama and at least some Democrats say they want to deliver for the rest of us: universal coverage ensuring that people with medical problems will not become impoverished by their illness, with patients offered a guaranteed set of services and a choice of private doctors, hospitals and other practitioners when they need treatment.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    Here's something positive I found on Medicare. Although I'm conservative I do get scared when I think what could happen if I lost my HC insurance. From my experience the state run HC programs have not been very successful. Our governor in Tenn was in the HC industry before he became governor, so I don't know why, but we've had problems with the cost of our state run HC.

    Here's a link to the article about Medicare:

    Marie Cocco: The Marvel That Is Medicare - Truthdig

    Excerpt:
    Never forget that Medicare is funded in part by individual "contributions" just like SS thus we are entitled to get the benefits due to those "contributions."

    My concern continues to be that both are put into the general fund and are being spent only to be replaced by IOU's. I see that happening with the healthcare bill as well.

    What I would like to see is both SS and Medicare put into individual IRA's that are untouchable until retirement. Can you imagine how much money you would have in both accounts based upon simple interest?

    Medicare then could be that individual health insurance account and SS that individual retirement account.

    I believe we need healthcare reform but not THIS healthcare reform since it doesn't reform healthcare. Provide incentive to individuals and we all would get a better program.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You don't think this healthcare bill grows the size of govt? who administers it and who manages it?
    Once again, either you're not paying attention or you're purposely attempting to inject your own particianship into the equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, I've never advocated for bigger gov't. I was against forming the Health Services Committee because I believe that the Dept of Health and Humans can handle most if not all of the administrative tasks listed in the health care reform bill just fine. Add more staff, but not another level of bureaucrisy.
    And with that I'm done with this debate. You're going to believe what you believe and never grasp that capitalism does have a moral responsibility to the under priviliaged. And where public entities and private enterprise falls short local, state and federal gov't has a moral duty to render assistance. Key word: "assistance"...not pay their way for life, just provide assistance until those in need are able to get back on their feet.

    In the case of the health care debate, the numbers may be scewed but that doesn't elilminate the fact that many people are going without health care because they can't afford it. And many who can are one tragedy away from bankruptcy. Some things within the health care system needed to be fixed. I'm sure the approved legistlation will be changed over the years - hopefully for the better - but I believe that this monumental legistlation is a step in the right direction for the nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What I would like to see is both SS and Medicare put into individual IRA's that are untouchable until retirement. Can you imagine how much money you would have in both accounts based upon simple interest?

    Medicare then could be that individual health insurance account and SS that individual retirement account.
    Both are novel ideals...until you recall what happened to the IRAs of millions of Americans in the wake of the housing bubble. If such personal retirement investments could be protected where the people who invest in them never lose more than a small fraction of their investment, if any, I'd be just fine with this idea. Unfortunately, that's not how Wall Street works. Good idea, just not very realistic.
    I believe we need healthcare reform but not THIS healthcare reform since it doesn't reform healthcare. Provide incentive to individuals and we all would get a better program.
    The incentives concept I agree with. Question is what would those be?


    And with that, I'm out.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-01-10 at 09:27 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Once again, either you're not paying attention or you're purposely attempting to inject your own particianship into the equation.



    And with that I'm done with this debate. You're going to believe what you believe and never grasp that capitalism does have a moral responsibility to the under priviliaged. And where public entities and private enterprise falls short local, state and federal gov't has a moral duty to render assistance. Key word: "assistance"...not pay their way for life, just provide assistance until those in need are able to get back on their feet.

    In the case of the health care debate, the numbers may be scewed but that doesn't elilminate the fact that many people are going without health care because they can't afford it. And many who can are one tragedy away from bankruptcy. Some things within the health care system needed to be fixed. I'm sure the approved legistlation will be changed over the years - hopefully for the better - but I believe that this monumental legistlation is a step in the right direction for the nation.



    Both are novel ideals...until you recall what happened to the IRAs of millions of Americans in the wake of the housing bubble. If such personal retirement investments could be protected where the people who invest in them never lose more than a small fraction of their investment, if any, I'd be just fine with this idea. Unfortunately, that's not how Wall Street works. Good idea, just not very realistic.


    The incentives concept I agree with. Question is what would those be?


    And with that, I'm out.
    This program is going to cost trillions according to CBO so it better be something other than a good first step. Problem is not many can comprehend how much a trillion is so let me help you.

    One trillion dollar bills laid end-to-end would stretch from the earth to the sun … and back … with a lot of miles to spare.

    One trillion dollars today would allow you buy Coca Cola, Apple, IBM, Bank of America, Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Motorola, AT&T, as well as Exxon Mobil and STILL have enough left over to live comfortably on just the interest from the billions left over– not to mention the profits these companies generate.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This program is going to cost trillions according to CBO so it better be something other than a good first step. Problem is not many can comprehend how much a trillion is so let me help you.

    One trillion dollar bills laid end-to-end would stretch from the earth to the sun … and back … with a lot of miles to spare.

    One trillion dollars today would allow you buy Coca Cola, Apple, IBM, Bank of America, Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Motorola, AT&T, as well as Exxon Mobil and STILL have enough left over to live comfortably on just the interest from the billions left over– not to mention the profits these companies generate.
    CBO says it's going to reduce the deficit so saying that it will "cost trillions" is rather disingenuous wouldn't you say?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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