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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Fair enough. Again, my point is at that time it was just an idea, and not even a seriously entertained one. As well, the responsibility is that of the people who passed the mandate in reality. Disneydude and the usual partisan crowd are only interested in playing gotcha games and trying to put out the public relations fires that the Dems are suffering because of the bill, and frankly I'm going to keep them on the hook.
    I am not as interested in that since I think while an individual mandate is unpopular, its going to be a necessary part of any real fix to our health care problems in this country. So I don't think there is any blame to cast, only the maturity to realize that we have a mess on our hands and that we have to do something about it.

    Its not the best solution (single payer is), but it can probably be made to work.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am not as interested in that since I think while an individual mandate is unpopular, its going to be a necessary part of any real fix to our health care problems in this country. So I don't think there is any blame to cast, only the maturity to realize that we have a mess on our hands and that we have to do something about it.

    Its not the best solution (single payer is), but it can probably be made to work.
    Single payer is a horrible solution, mandates are not much better. I think that alot of people need to do some research on all of the economic damage caused by ridiculously lousy regulations over the last century or so, then alot of people would realize why not only single payer is garbage, but why the federal government has no business setting anything past basic sanitary regulations.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Single payer is a horrible solution, mandates are not much better. I think that alot of people need to do some research on all of the economic damage caused by ridiculously lousy regulations over the last century or so, then alot of people would realize why not only single payer is garbage, but why the federal government has no business setting anything past basic sanitary regulations.
    Yet pretty much every first world (and many third world) country has that or a similar system, that tends to be very popular, is more cost efficient, and often similar or better outcomes than what we have.

    If the system as a whole appears to work (as evidence by a vast amount of data from other countries) the individual details don't matter so much to me. Sure regulations can often be stupid, but as a whole, this sort of thing appears to be a huge success.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-27-10 at 05:06 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yet pretty much every first world (and many third world) country has that or a similar system, that tends to be very popular, is more cost efficient, and often similar or better outcomes than what we have.
    Now you are starting to use talking points. The fact is that UHC is losing popularity in the U.K. and I think Canada as we speak, the Canadian as well as the U.K are easing restrictions on private plans to appease a constantly growing public outcry over wait times, cuts, and rationing to ease it's financial burdens as well as growing public satisfaction. There are daily newsstories in both of those countries saying such.
    So no, it won't be popular or efficient, and I could give a good god damn about what other countries are doing, this one isn't them.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    New health insurance requirement ... was GOP idea - Yahoo! News

    Republicans were for President Barack Obama's requirement that Americans get health insurance before they were against it.

    The obligation in the new health care law is a Republican idea that's been around at least two decades. It was once trumpeted as an alternative to Bill and Hillary Clinton's failed health care overhaul in the 1990s. These days, Republicans call it government overreach.
    ....Conservatives today say that's unacceptable. Not long ago, many of them saw a national mandate as a free-market route to guarantee coverage for all Americans the answer to liberal ambitions for a government-run entitlement like Medicare. Most experts agree some kind of requirement is needed in a reformed system because health insurance doesn't work if people can put off joining the risk pool until they get sick.

    Any argument that the tactics of the GOP are anything other than political posturing simply to oppose anything that Obama proposes is disengenuous.


    They were for it before they were against it.

    Great! Let's scrap the whole bill. This ought put the Liberals squarely behind that idea, now. Right??
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Now you are starting to use talking points. The fact is that UHC is losing popularity in the U.K. and I think Canada as we speak, the Canadian as well as the U.K are easing restrictions on private plans to appease a constantly growing public outcry over wait times, cuts, and rationing to ease it's financial burdens as well as growing public satisfaction. There are daily newsstories in both of those countries saying such.
    So no, it won't be popular or efficient, and I could give a good god damn about what other countries are doing, this one isn't them.
    Universal Health Care is not losing support in Canada

    Not being able to pay for extra coverage or quicker coverage is
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Now you are starting to use talking points.
    You call them talking point. I call them common sense. Whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The fact is that UHC is losing popularity in the U.K. and I think Canada as we speak, the Canadian as well as the U.K are easing restrictions on private plans to appease a constantly growing public outcry over wait times, cuts, and rationing to ease it's financial burdens as well as growing public satisfaction. There are daily newsstories in both of those countries saying such.
    (By the way, the bolded part is also a talking point)

    One news article I find shows that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care.
    A new poll conducted by the Toronto-based Nanos Research points to overwhelming support — 86.2 percent — for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services.
    Edit: found another one. CBC News: Poll: Canada and the world This shows that 2% think that health care wait times are canada's most important issue.

    As for NHS. According to their internal surveys. 92% were satisfied with their care. https://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/article...e=T4usersurvey

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    So no, it won't be popular or efficient, and I could give a good god damn about what other countries are doing, this one isn't them.
    It appears that the data shows another conclusion. Besides, universal health care hasn't been implemented here, so we can't know how popular it would be. There is resistance to it, but there has been resistance to positive change in the past.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-27-10 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You call them talking point. I call them common sense. Whatever.
    There's nothing common sense about them,, most of them are based on general statements, wishful thinking, comparative, or emotional language. And all can be debunked.



    (By the way, the bolded part is also a talking point)

    One news article I find shows that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care.
    That's nice, I can find a news article also to say whatever I want to make a point about. How about some hard data, because most of the news I've heard is negative.

    Edit: found another one. CBC News: Poll: Canada and the world This shows that 2% think that health care wait times are canada's most important issue.
    Again, for every source you find I've seen a counter. Let's see some hard data instead.

    As for NHS. According to their internal surveys. 92% were satisfied with their care. https://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/article...e=T4usersurvey
    Internal surveys are awful, they can find any way to word things in their favor.



    It appears that the data shows another conclusion. Besides, universal health care hasn't been implemented here, so we can't know how popular it would be. There is resistance to it, but there has been resistance to positive change in the past.
    You are the one who wants it, even though it is beyond the scope of government power and is ill advised, I need more proof than two newspaper articles and internal polling. As well, you haven't addressed the fact that the systems are going broke, and that they are deferring to private insurance as much as possible.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Universal Health Care is not losing support in Canada

    Not being able to pay for extra coverage or quicker coverage is
    Now why would one need additional coverage or "quicker" coverage if UHC was so much more efficient and popular?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    There's nothing common sense about them,, most of them are based on general statements, wishful thinking, comparative, or emotional language. And all can be debunked.
    Debunk them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That's nice, I can find a news article also to say whatever I want to make a point about. How about some hard data, because most of the news I've heard is negative.

    Again, for every source you find I've seen a counter. Let's see some hard data instead.

    Internal surveys are awful, they can find any way to word things in their favor.
    Show me. At least I have attempted to provide outside data other than my own opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You are the one who wants it, even though it is beyond the scope of government power and is ill advised, I need more proof than two newspaper articles and internal polling. As well, you haven't addressed the fact that the systems are going broke, and that they are deferring to private insurance as much as possible.


    I would hardly say that Canada is going broke. It seems that they have enough money for existing programs, such as their health service.

    NHS is losing money though. You are right about that.

    And yes I am someone who wants it, because I believe it would be good for the country.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-27-10 at 06:35 PM.

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