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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    BS! Drill baby drill is an election year slogan is what it is!

    We haven't produced as much oil as we consume in this country since 1970, despite whether liberals or conservatives were in charge.

    Have you never read Cheney's 2001 oil industry task force report that stated that drilling alone is not the answer? Why do you think they recommended our military control of Iraq's oil?
    How much has the Iraqi Oil helped this country and the oil companies? Drilling alone won't solve the problem but neither will preventing it. Stop with the partisan rhetoric and think for a change.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How much has the Iraqi Oil helped this country and the oil companies?
    I think Cheney and his task force, put it best in their 2001 energy report.

    "So, we come to the report’s central dilemma: the American people continue to demand plentiful and cheap energy without sacrifice or inconvenience."

    Drilling alone won't solve the problem but neither will preventing it. Stop with the partisan rhetoric and think for a change.
    This is not partisan rhetoric, it is fact. What year since 1970 have we produced as much oil as we consumed, no matter which party was in charge?

    Your claim on the other hand, "There is plenty of oil off the coasts of this country that the states refuse to touch." is completely unfounded.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think Cheney and his task force, put it best in their 2001 energy report.

    "So, we come to the report’s central dilemma: the American people continue to demand plentiful and cheap energy without sacrifice or inconvenience."



    This is not partisan rhetoric, it is fact. What year since 1970 have we produced as much oil as we consumed, no matter which party was in charge?

    Your claim on the other hand, "There is plenty of oil off the coasts of this country that the states refuse to touch." is completely unfounded.
    My claim was in regards to royalties and thus revenue to the states and that claim is accurate. No one was talking about energy independence in this thread.

    You really have a hatred for oil companies. I spent 35 years working for one and can tell you that you don't know what you are talking about on that issue.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Read the Constitution and stop acting like a fool. The Constitution defines the role of the govt. and no where does it mention healthcare.
    No, but it DOES mention "promote the general welfare" for its citizens. The argument continues...ensuring a health citizenry is part of looking after the general welfare of the country in terms of both public health, the national debt AND the economy. It's all tied together. It's just a shame some people can't see that.

    Great, then solve the problems in your state and stop looking to someone else to bail you out. It isn't my responsibility to pay for your healthcare nor anyone else's in your state nor is it yours to pay for mine.
    And for the ump-teenth time, I put in my 40+ hrs per week and pay my health insurance premiums like most everyone else. You don't provide one plug nickle towards my well-being. So, you can get off that soap box, Mister. I'm advocating for those who can't afford it but are doing everything they can to lead honest lives but for one reason or another can't get a break. But for some reason, that still hasn't gotten through your thick skull. We're on the same side as far as illegals receiving free health care via emergency rooms or for those who are gaming the system. My argument continues to be that some people simply need help and can't get it any other way except from the state or federal government. So, please, stop trying to twist my arguments into something they are not.

    BS, Medicaid is the state program, Medicare is the Federal Program, both are riddled with waste, fraud, and abuse yet you blame insurance companies. Where in the Constitution is healthcare mentioned? Federal Bureaucrats that have run up a 13 trillion dollar debt have no business setting minimum anything for individuals.
    Medicaid IS a "joint-venture" between the federal gov't and the individual states. I should know; I work with Medicaid clients everyday. I have a very good understanding of how the system works.

    If you blame the states then do something about it, change your govt. Anyone that believes the Federal govt can do anything better than the states is naive, gullible, and very misinformed.
    And for the last time, I've never claimed that the fed was more efficient than state gov't in running social programs, only that state gov't, IMO, is more to blame for perpetuating the problems with the social programs they've been empowered to run. Read my words and try not to inject your own personal or political biasness in them.

    (Sidenote: For those interested, here's an interesting twist on the health insurance mandate viewed from a personal taxation point of view...)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-29-10 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    No, but it DOES mention "promote the general welfare" for its citizens.
    BIG NEGATIVE! It DOES say "general welfare" but ABSOLUTELY NOT the "citizens"... You may interpret it differently, but the word "citizens" is a COMPLETE fabrication.. It is NOT there!

    You may wish to argue but unless you live in a different country with a different constitution then the words speak for themselves without your extensions of progressive pseudo-logic.

    BUT feel free to SHOW us all where it does say citizens of the State.. it would settle a LOT of arguments and support your pro-bloated government position.
    CROUCH DOWN AND LICK THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU; MAY YOUR CHAINS WEIGH LIGHTLY UPON YOU; AND MAY PROSPERITY FORGET THAT YE WERE MY COUNTRYMEN. -SAMUEL ADAMS

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ConservaBill View Post
    BIG NEGATIVE! It DOES say "general welfare" but ABSOLUTELY NOT the "citizens"... You may interpret it differently, but the word "citizens" is a COMPLETE fabrication.. It is NOT there!

    You may wish to argue but unless you live in a different country with a different constitution then the words speak for themselves without your extensions of progressive pseudo-logic.

    BUT feel free to SHOW us all where it does say citizens of the State.. it would settle a LOT of arguments and support your pro-bloated government position.
    Who the hell else would general welfare be referring to? This is literally the weirdest argument I've ever heard.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ConservaBill View Post
    BIG NEGATIVE! It DOES say "general welfare" but ABSOLUTELY NOT the "citizens"... You may interpret it differently, but the word "citizens" is a COMPLETE fabrication.. It is NOT there!
    That's why he didn't put citizens in quotes, professor.

    But if the general welfare isn't for the citizens of the U.S., who is it for?

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Who the hell else would general welfare be referring to?
    Apparently it's not the general welfare, but specific welfare.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ConservaBill View Post
    BIG NEGATIVE! It DOES say "general welfare" but ABSOLUTELY NOT the "citizens"... You may interpret it differently, but the word "citizens" is a COMPLETE fabrication.. It is NOT there!

    You may wish to argue but unless you live in a different country with a different constitution then the words speak for themselves without your extensions of progressive pseudo-logic.

    BUT feel free to SHOW us all where it does say citizens of the State.. it would settle a LOT of arguments and support your pro-bloated government position.
    Preamble to the U.S. Constitution:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Welfare
    welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

    Now, if the Constitution was not written with the sole purpose of providing government with a blue print for governing and caring for this country's citizens, I don't know what document does!

    You lose!! Thanks for playing...please try again.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-29-10 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Preamble to the U.S. Constitution:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Welfare
    welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

    Now, if the Constitution was not written with the sole purpose of providing government with a blue print for governing and caring for this country's citizens, I don't know what document does!

    You lose!! Thanks for playing...please try again.
    The operative word is PROMOTE and it does appear that many here don't understand the difference between that and PROVIDE. Promoting means creating conditions where the people of this country can prosper. I see nothing in the healthcare bill that promotes the general welfare but I do see promoting bigger govt., more involvment by that govt. and forcing people to buy a personal responsibility healthcare policy.

    If you allow the govt. to get involved in the personal responsibility of healthcare where does it stop in your world? that is a slippery slope you are allowing the govt. to get involved in all because you PERCEIVE healthcare to be a serious problem. The serious problems in this country stem around job creation and failure to accept consequences for failure. If someone can afford healthcare but chooses not to purchase it then that is an individual responsibility that they are responsible for and they are responsible for payment. Those that truly cannot afford healthcare have the option of going to the churches, charities, or individuals for help.

    Local and state governments are closer to the issue and thus are the ones that should solve the problem, not the Federal Govt. with federal dollars.

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