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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Conserv,

    I've come to you privately and discussed this very issue with you before. What makes you think that everyone who seaks gov't assistance - be it state or federal - are drug addicts, overeaters or otherwise engaged in harmful activities? Couldn't it be that they're just down on their luck? Couldn't it be that they tried to do the right thing all their adult lives but just came onto a bump in the road? Coudn't it be that the circumstances of their lives have changed, i.e., a woman who was a housewife, gets divorced or worse - her husband who was the bread winner dies yet they couldn't afford life insurance yet did everything they could do as a family to make ends meet - now finds herself as the sole wage earner of her family?

    What's wrong with you people who seem to have this idea that everyone who turns to gov't aid does so with the full intend of being leaches on society?
    It's fundamental attribution error. It's the cornerstone of conservative ideology.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    ...and thus, they are wrong.

    While it IS true that there are many people out there who are irresponsible and WILL seak to go on state/federal assistance the moment they run into trouble, their are those who are very responsible, who do try to provide for themselves, who are productive members of society but fall short sometimes through no fault of their own and just need help.

    Those who cry that's what "charities" are there for forgot that many of these charities also receive financial contributions from the very government they say should NOT help "the people".

    Get a clue, folks!

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Conserv,

    I've come to you privately and discussed this very issue with you before. What makes you think that everyone who seaks gov't assistance - be it state or federal - are drug addicts, overeaters or otherwise engaged in harmful activities? Couldn't it be that they're just down on their luck? Couldn't it be that they tried to do the right thing all their adult lives but just came onto a bump in the road? Coudn't it be that the circumstances of their lives have changed, i.e., a woman who was a housewife, gets divorced or worse - her husband who was the bread winner dies yet they couldn't afford life insurance yet did everything they could do as a family to make ends meet - now finds herself as the sole wage earner of her family?

    What's wrong with you people who seem to have this idea that everyone who turns to gov't aid does so with the full intend of being leaches on society?
    Not unexpected but you take everything out of context to try and make your point, Never did I say that all were drug addicts but to say they aren't included would be a lie. Also obese people, cigarette smokers are part of that group, should the taxpayer support personal behavior issues?

    if you want to help people do so, that is what local communities, charities and churches do. Still waiting for you to explain why this is a Federal issue and responsibility?

    I am sure you mean well, but you are very naive, gullible, and misinformed, probably lacking real life personal experience in this area. You seem to believe it is the government's role to handle personal responsibility issues so where does it stop?

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    ...and thus, they are wrong.

    While it IS true that there are many people out there who are irresponsible and WILL seak to go on state/federal assistance the moment they run into trouble, their are those who are very responsible, who do try to provide for themselves, who are productive members of society but fall short sometimes through no fault of their own and just need help.

    Those who cry that's what "charities" are there for forgot that many of these charities also receive financial contributions from the very government they say should NOT help "the people".

    Get a clue, folks!
    They get nothing from the Federal govt. that doesn't come from the taxpayer. It is the taxpayer that funds charities and if the govt. increased the incentive to contribute locally they would need less tax dollars to send back to charities. You need to get a clue but more importantly get out more and find out what is going on in the communitiies.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It's fundamental attribution error. It's the cornerstone of conservative ideology.

    This coming from someone who hasn't proven anything to anyone that he/she is qualified to judge anyone else.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Not unexpected but you take everything out of context to try and make your point, Never did I say that all were drug addicts but to say they aren't included would be a lie. Also obese people, cigarette smokers are part of that group, should the taxpayer support personal behavior issues?

    if you want to help people do so, that is what local communities, charities and churches do. Still waiting for you to explain why this is a Federal issue and responsibility?
    And I've said it before, the gov't has a responsibility to its people to promote the general welfare, i.e., look after its own. If it does not, the basic fabric of a civilized society crumbles!

    I am sure you mean well, but you are very naive, gullible, and misinformed, ...
    And there you go again making unfounded presumptions. I'm very well informed as to how the world works. I in no way presume that gov't should be everything to everybody, but it has a moral responsibility to render assistance to its people in every way that it can, and it does so by delegating most of these social programs to the states. If you truly want to blame gov't for mismanagement thereto, look towards the state inwhich you live first and then tell us how efficient and effectively managed the social programs they've been empowered to run is working.

    ...probably lacking real life personal experience in this area.
    Don't presume to know what life experiences I've encountered. I'll throw your words right back at you, "You don't know me, sir!" You have not a clue what I've seen, what I've experienced and what I go through. But even if you did, I see no reason why I should have to justify my life experiences to you or anyone else for that matter. Still, I've expressed my views on gov't's role in their moral responsibility to it's citizens. I don't expect you to agree with them, but I'd still say your hardline view on the matter is wrong. What you appear to want is either a manarchy or a Communist state. How'd that work for England and/or Russia?

    "You seem to believe it is the government's role to handle personal responsibility issues so where does it stop?
    Again, I've said no such thing. What I have said is gov't does have a moral responsibility to its people. But again, if you honestly believe that gov't can't run social programs effectively, I urge you to run for public office and do whatever you can to effect change YOU can believe in. Until then, stop the madness already.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    They get nothing from the Federal govt. that doesn't come from the taxpayer. It is the taxpayer that funds charities and if the govt. increased the incentive to contribute locally they would need less tax dollars to send back to charities. You need to get a clue but more importantly get out more and find out what is going on in the communitiies.
    What double-talk. Of course charities receive gov't assisted funding, i.e., Red Cross anyone? Some of it may come in the form of gov't grants, but they do receive gov't assistance. Not all of them, but some particularly the bigger charities.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-27-10 at 06:16 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This coming from someone who hasn't proven anything to anyone that he/she is qualified to judge anyone else.
    Dude, you argued dispositional explanations for seeking government assistance while outright ignoring any situational explanations. You are a textbook example of fundamental attribution error. If an orphan child with one leg and a bad case of the mumps asked for government assistance, you would declare him lazy. I don't have to be qualified in any particular way to know that, I can simply read your posts and pick up on how you oversimplify your view of the world where everything you don't like can be described by poor choices people make or bad personality traits they have and it never has anything to do with things outside their control.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Objective Voice;1058715643]And I've said it before, the gov't has a responsibility to its people to promote the general welfare, i.e., look after its own. If it does not, the basic fabric of a civilized society crumbles!
    Promote does not mean provide and this is a state and local issue, not a Federal Issue. We have 50 independent states that the Federal Govt. is taking responsibility from.



    And there you go again making unfounded presumptions. I'm very well informed as to how the world works. I in no way presume that gov't should be everything to everybody, but it has a moral responsibility to render assistance to its people in every way that it can, and it does so by delegating most of these social programs to the states. If you truly want to blame gov't for mismanagement thereto, look towards the state inwhich you live first and then tell us how efficient and effectively managed the social programs they've been empowered to run is working.
    Then read what you post before sending it. That moral responsibility is state and local, not federal. TX has it right, personal responsibility rules.


    How'd that work for England and/or Russia?
    Wait a year or two and you will find out here, is that what you want?


    Again, I've said no such thing. What I have said is gov't does have a moral responsibility to its people. But again, if you honestly believe that gov't can't run social programs effectively, I urge you to run for public office and do whatever you can to effect change YOU can believe in. Until then, stop the madness already.
    Fortunately I live in a state and area that takes care of its people. It is a shame that you don't. I explained why Obama won and you ignored it. Is this the change you voted for?

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Promote does not mean provide and this is a state and local issue, not a Federal Issue.
    And as I've said before I agree with you; it is that states who have been delegated much of the responsibility for executing many of the social programs our government has enacted. But you've obviously got selective reading because time and time again, you've missed that part. (I'd say selective listening, but this is a text-based forum...).
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Fortunately I live in a state and area that takes care of its people. It is a shame that you don't. I explained why Obama won and you ignored it. Is this the change you voted for?
    Then for your sake you should hope TX succeeds from the union and you can have your own version of a capitalistic utopian society. Good Luck with that.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-27-10 at 07:08 PM.

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