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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Right, but the writings by Orrin Hatch were an admission that it was the political version of a logic bomb, it was in there back then specifically to make the bill unconstitutional and thus unusable at the time. Unfortunately, this batch of Democrats were even dumber than given credit for and used the provision anyway. Let's be fair, no one can count for stupidity in even the best laid plans.
    The idea predated that though. George H.W. Bush was in favor it. As was Romney and Tommy Thompson later on.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Thanks Gina and BWG

    However, what you showed kind of re-enforces my point. While the mandating of insurance is similar, there are a number of difference between the two bills that is at the core a likely reason its okay then and not now. For example, one of the key ones it seems is the ability to purchase between state lines. This opens up competition in the market place making insurance more varied, more affordable, and gives more choices to those having to buy it. From what I've seen the penalties for buying your own insurance, and buying very good insurance for yourself, were not present in the older bill which again makes the choice more difficult.

    The plan from 1993 also had a number of things, such a reform of malpractice law, that have been denied going into this.

    It also doesn't seem to have a number of things, such as the direct access to our bank accounts, a government panel making decisions regarding what treatment you can have (without the appeals process found in private insurance), subsidizing union contracts, and other such things that add to this.

    As I've stated, I very much dislike the notion of mandated insurance. I think its a constitutionally problematic thing that I believe violates the spirit more so than the letter of it. That said, as part of a compromised bill which stressed consumer responsibility and choice of private insurance with the government simply, at most, as a safety net...without a number of penalties and regulations that seem to have no real purpose other than to set the stage for continual legislation pushes towards more people choosing or needing the government plan and thus moving to single payer...could be a compromised type bill I could get behind if done honestly and above the board while in the minority...as the republicans were in 1993.

    That is not the case, in any way here. Many of the core conservative ideas for fixing things have been utterly rejected. The only real compromise that's been presented is "We'll make it LESS liberal" in most cases. The various regulations, penalties, and fines on individuals, business, and the insurance companies appears to be a clear attempt to make it either difficult or inefficient to get the insurance you want, you want to provide as a business owner, or you need to provide to get a profit as an insurance provider. This, coupled with the mandate for individual insurance, I believe is going to simply set the stage for more problems, not less, to simply give a way to say "See, we should've done single payer in the first place, lets do it now".

    I don't see those same things in the 1993 plan.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The idea predated that though. George H.W. Bush was in favor it.
    H.W. isn't exactly the best example of a conservative Republican though.
    As was Romney and Tommy Thompson later on.
    Right, but it was a proven failure in Mass. already, and people changed their minds, nothing more to it really.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm happy to take credit for it. Thanks!
    It's called blame, you know, the opposite of credit.

    The point people are trying to make, that is escaping you it seems, is that Republicans are being deceitful in their opposition to this bill.
    Oh, I get the point you are trying to make, but the fact is that the Republicans did not act on the proposals, which anyone who is being honest would assess, provided they can grasp concepts, would be that actions are all that matter, and the Republicans are not the one's with blood on their hands.
    Thanks for playing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thanks Gina and BWG

    However, what you showed kind of re-enforces my point. While the mandating of insurance is similar, there are a number of difference between the two bills that is at the core a likely reason its okay then and not now. For example, one of the key ones it seems is the ability to purchase between state lines. This opens up competition in the market place making insurance more varied, more affordable, and gives more choices to those having to buy it. From what I've seen the penalties for buying your own insurance, and buying very good insurance for yourself, were not present in the older bill which again makes the choice more difficult.

    The plan from 1993 also had a number of things, such a reform of malpractice law, that have been denied going into this.

    It also doesn't seem to have a number of things, such as the direct access to our bank accounts, a government panel making decisions regarding what treatment you can have (without the appeals process found in private insurance), subsidizing union contracts, and other such things that add to this.

    As I've stated, I very much dislike the notion of mandated insurance. I think its a constitutionally problematic thing that I believe violates the spirit more so than the letter of it. That said, as part of a compromised bill which stressed consumer responsibility and choice of private insurance with the government simply, at most, as a safety net...without a number of penalties and regulations that seem to have no real purpose other than to set the stage for continual legislation pushes towards more people choosing or needing the government plan and thus moving to single payer...could be a compromised type bill I could get behind if done honestly and above the board while in the minority...as the republicans were in 1993.

    That is not the case, in any way here. Many of the core conservative ideas for fixing things have been utterly rejected. The only real compromise that's been presented is "We'll make it LESS liberal" in most cases. The various regulations, penalties, and fines on individuals, business, and the insurance companies appears to be a clear attempt to make it either difficult or inefficient to get the insurance you want, you want to provide as a business owner, or you need to provide to get a profit as an insurance provider. This, coupled with the mandate for individual insurance, I believe is going to simply set the stage for more problems, not less, to simply give a way to say "See, we should've done single payer in the first place, lets do it now".

    I don't see those same things in the 1993 plan.
    What is stopping insurance companies from setting up a subsidiary in different states? As a means to increase competition that is
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    What is stopping insurance companies from setting up a subsidiary in different states? As a means to increase competition that is
    It's not that easy, every state sets it's own insurance laws and companies must appoint individually with each state in which they do business, if a state is mandate heavy on coverage it may not be worth setting up shop as doing business would skew the business model more towards the red. In other words, insurance friendly states usually have more options, overregulated states are "options poor".
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It's not that easy, every state sets it's own insurance laws and companies must appoint individually with each state in which they do business, if a state is mandate heavy on coverage it may not be worth setting up shop as doing business would skew the business model more towards the red. In other words, insurance friendly states usually have more options, overregulated states are "options poor".
    So you would rather have the federal government override what is a states rights regarding health insurance?
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So you would rather have the federal government override what is a states rights regarding health insurance?
    Not really, I'd rather the federal mind what it's supposed to rightfully within the constitutional boundaries, initial federal health policy created this mess to begin with. But if it's that or mandated insurance, IRS expansion, and an overmpowered DHHS I'll take an interstate competition model any day.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    H.W. isn't exactly the best example of a conservative Republican though. Right, but it was a proven failure in Mass. already, and people changed their minds, nothing more to it really.
    He was a part of the GOP though. If I wanted to argue about its conservative bonafides, I would have brought this up instead.

    In the early 1970s, President Richard Nixon favored a mandate that employers provide insurance. In the 1990s, the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, embraced an individual requirement.
    And I would have mentioned that this organization is the one that Rush Limbaugh is constantly promoting.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-27-10 at 05:00 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    He was a part of the GOP though.
    Fair enough. Again, my point is at that time it was just an idea, and not even a seriously entertained one. As well, the responsibility is that of the people who passed the mandate in reality. Disneydude and the usual partisan crowd are only interested in playing gotcha games and trying to put out the public relations fires that the Dems are suffering because of the bill, and frankly I'm going to keep them on the hook.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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