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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    i'm not tring to "put out fires". I'm more interested in discussing how people view the GOP's "opposition" to it in light of the fact that their history shows that they supported it...before they were against it.
    Who implemented it? The Democrats did. I know this is hard for some to understand, but the actor owns the action, the Democrats are the actors(in more ways than one.). Since you are a partisan that means you own this as well. Funny how things work huh?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Who implemented it? The Democrats did. I know this is hard for some to understand, but the actor owns the action, the Democrats are the actors(in more ways than one.). Since you are a partisan that means you own this as well. Funny how things work huh?
    We are all partisan...that is why we are here

    The reality is...yes, the Democrats got the plan through. However, the mandate to purchase insurance came courtesy of the Republicans and the Bluedogs in exchange for the public option. The public option was removed and replaced by this because they refused to even come to the table if the public option was included.
    Now...looking at their history and their support for this, is it any surprise?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Well, to be honest, which I know is tough for you, one would have to look at the big picture here. Did they support this as part of a different plan? Maybe it made sense to them then... Who knows.


    This hyperpartisan "na-na" game that you all have been playing since the bills passage is so sophomoric it would be laughable if not so lame.
    If it made sense to them then....why is the biggest issue they are raising the very thing that they were behind? Rather than stomping their feet and screaming about other parts of the bill?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    i'm not tring to "put out fires". I'm more interested in discussing how people view the GOP's "opposition" to it in light of the fact that their history shows that they supported it...before they were against it.



    This is dishonest. They did not support it in the context of THIS plan. Sorry. FAIL
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If it made sense to them then....why is the biggest issue they are raising the very thing that they were behind? Rather than stomping their feet and screaming about other parts of the bill?



    Please list and quote the ones who were strongly for it, and the context of the plan they supported.... who are now resoundly against it...


    Memebers who voted on both plans please.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    We are all partisan...that is why we are here

    The reality is...yes, the Democrats got the plan through. However, the mandate to purchase insurance came courtesy of the Republicans and the Bluedogs in exchange for the public option. The public option was removed and replaced by this because they refused to even come to the table if the public option was included.
    Now...looking at their history and their support for this, is it any surprise?



    So wait, it was a compromise? Is this what your hanging your "na-na gotcha" schtick on? Really?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    I dislike the individual mandate. It is not something I'd suggest as a portion of a bill, nor something I'd be happy with Republicans pushing if they were in the majority.

    However, if in the minority and attempting to compromise, if that was one of the few things found in the bill I was unhappy with and there were a number of concessions to my ideological side in it as well, I could live with it.

    I have yet to have a single, solitary person on this forum provide any actual evidence of the actual proposal that was given in 1993. I've seen bloggers speaking about it, typically referencing other bloggers. I've seen a 3rd party comparison chart that is exceedingly lacking in specifics and depth. However I've seen absolutely zero hard evidence of a plan to be able to look at it independently and actually compare, despite some people on this site claiming they're nearly "identical" yet never having seen it themselves.

    In 1993 the Republicans were a minority group, likely suggesting a plan that would look bipartisan and compromising in nature rather than one that was the idea thing they'd want. However there has been no indication anywhere that I've seen of the penalties or enforcement that was in the 1993 plan, which alone could paint a very different picture.

    As I've said before, one could say someone should like Golf if they like Football because that shows they like games with a ball in it. One could also say that would be an incredibly ignorant comment to make.

    Without actual evidence and ability to look at the plan, to see the reasonings surrounding it almost 20 years ago, and the difference between now its hard to really make such a claim, unless you're one of the typically dishonest hyper partisan types, that its automatically hypocritical or partisan to say that almost 20 years ago people in a party supported a plan that had this one particular thing in it, the extent of which is completely unknown, but to be against this current plan.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    We are all partisan...that is why we are here
    the I have supported Democrats in the rare instances they were right, I conceded that Medicare part D was a frivolous waste of money, and always put constitution and country first regardless of party. Partisans are the types that simply tow the party line. So please stop trying to put everyone in the partisan camp.

    The reality is...yes, the Democrats got the plan through. However, the mandate to purchase insurance came courtesy of the Republicans and the Bluedogs in exchange for the public option.
    So if one of my colleagues suggests a bad idea, rethinks it, and I implement it he's the one who is responsible even though I'm the one who did it? You cannot possibly think that is an adequate response.
    The public option was removed and replaced by this because they refused to even come to the table if the public option was included.
    No Republicans voted Yea on the bill anyway, so what's your point?
    Now...looking at their history and their support for this, is it any surprise?
    So the Democrats own it and you are all trying to put out fires, thanks for the concession.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Please list and quote the ones who were strongly for it, and the context of the plan they supported.... who are now resoundly against it.
    Memebers who voted on both plans please.
    Orrin Hatch
    Faced with plummeting public support, the White House is engaged in a scorched-earth PR campaign to justify its failure to listen to the majority of the American people who oppose this $2.5 trillion health-care bill. They've even started attacking my opposition to the unconstitutional federal individual mandate citing legislation that was introduced as an alternative to Hillarycare back in the 1990s.

    To be clear, I supported this alternative to President Clinton's massive federal takeover of the American health-care system, because my number-one priority was the defeat of yet another big-government assault on health care that the people of Utah overwhelmingly opposed. It's that simple.

    In the intervening years, I went back and carefully examined, in close consultation with constitutional experts, the legal problems with many of the bills being supported at the time. This needed to be done, because of the hasty nature of the debate which was thrust upon us in 1994. It is simply a fact that Congress has never imposed this kind of mandate before. We concluded, as would any intelligent scholar of the Constitution, that this federal mandate requiring Americans to either purchase health insurance or face a punitive tax exceeds the authority the Constitution has given to Congress...

    I believe our liberty still requires limits on government, and I am glad that the country is today debating constitutional as well as policy issues. We would all be better off if more "policy experts" took this rational approach.

    It's regrettable that instead of examining the legality of their health-care monstrosity, the administration and its allies are simply going on a smear campaign. From one experienced legislator, let me give Washington one very important piece of advice: Don't think you are right 100 percent of the time with everything you do. Arrogance and power are a terrible mix, and one the American people will not support...

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin
    I have yet to have a single, solitary person on this forum provide any actual evidence of the actual proposal that was given in 1993. I've seen bloggers speaking about it, typically referencing other bloggers. I've seen a 3rd party comparison chart that is exceedingly lacking in specifics and depth. However I've seen absolutely zero hard evidence of a plan to be able to look at it independently and actually compare, despite some people on this site claiming they're nearly "identical" yet never having seen it themselves.

    I don't know if this will satisfy your requirements or not, but here is a Kaiser Health News account.

    I remember the Clinton health care battle in the 90's. It has been so long ago I had forgoten some of the specifics, but was gently reminded of the similarities of some of the proposals from back then - from both sides - to the recently passed bill.

    It's a good read, but the part specific to this thread is quoted below.


    Summary Of A 1993 Republican Health Reform Plan

    Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005. Provides an exception for any individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including those who rely on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone.

    Summary Of A 1993 Republican Health Reform Plan - Kaiser Health News
    This is a businessweek article from 1993

    Chafee also faces intraparty competition from Senator Phil Gramm (R-Tex.), a Presidential aspirant. Under Gramm's plan, families would be expected to cover the first $3,000 in annual medical expenses with help from tax-deductible "medical IRAs." Mandatory insurance would pay for catastrophic illness. Price-conscious shoppers would drive down costs, Gramm argues, without the "collectivism" of the Clinton and Chafee plans. "If you change the incentives," he says, "consumers will decide how to reorganize the health system--not some planners over at the White House."

    BW Online | July 5, 1993 | HEALTH REFORM: HOW THE GOP COULD BLOW ITS CHANCE
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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