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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Never argued they only have one objection. But they do object to this alone. They don't argue that the mandate would be fine if. They argue that there should be no mandate.

    Also, it isn't the only idea in the bill that is theirs.
    would this be kind of like how the Democratic party voted for the war in Iraq before they voted against it?

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And I'm sure they will be for it again when we later try to upgrade to a single payer system.
    yup; sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And I'm sure they will be for it again when we later try to upgrade to a single payer system.
    Downgrade. The word you are looking for is downgrade.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Allegations of hypocrisy are not arguments. Some Republicans did embrace the individual mandate. So what? That makes the current law constitutional or even respoinsible?

    Additionally, the Republicans made clear that they were simply not saying no to everything. That lie has gained traction with the complete cooperation of the media, but it ignores the dozens of proposals the Republicans presented and that were ignored as the Democrats huddled behind closed doors crafting this legislation.

    Edit - anyone care to recall Obama's opposition to the individual mandate while he was running for President? No hypocrisy there, though, right...nothing to see here for the lame lefties using allegations of hypocrisy as arguments.
    Last edited by Conservative Sword; 04-03-10 at 11:21 PM.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Allegations of hypocrisy are not arguments. Some Republicans did embrace the individual mandate. So what? That makes the current law constitutional or even respoinsible?

    Additionally, the Republicans made clear that they were simply not saying no to everything. That lie has gained traction with the complete cooperation of the media, but it ignores the dozens of proposals the Republicans presented and that were ignored as the Democrats huddled behind closed doors crafting this legislation.

    Edit - anyone care to recall Obama's opposition to the individual mandate while he was running for President? No hypocrisy there, though, right...nothing to see here for the lame lefties using allegations of hypocrisy as arguments.
    So, you say allegations of hypocrisy are not arguments ... then you follow it up with an allegation of hypocrisy?

    Both parties play politics. "Closed doors" is a meaningless talking point. Republicans did participate in the forming of this legislation (remember Olympia Snowe's committee vote?). It's clear to me that Republicans had chances to influence the final bill, but they chose a different strategy and lost an all-or-nothing battle.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    So, you say allegations of hypocrisy are not arguments ... then you follow it up with an allegation of hypocrisy?
    Not an allegation, but an observation of fact. And it's not presented as ana argument. Merely citing said fact.

    Both parties play politics. "Closed doors" is a meaningless talking point. Republicans did participate in the forming of this legislation (remember Olympia Snowe's committee vote?). It's clear to me that Republicans had chances to influence the final bill, but they chose a different strategy and lost an all-or-nothing battle.
    Not a talking point...not when Reid & Pelosi promise the most ethical and transparent Congress ever and Barry is promising the most transparent administration ever and promising that this health care debate will be open and transparent. And certainly not merely a talking point when properly acknowledging that the Democrats were arguing that they were seeking bipartisanship.

    Yeah, Paul Ryan, for example, didn't propose anything. The bottomline is that the Republicans and Democrats were moving in totally different directions. They was no compromise between the Democrats demand for a government-controlled outcome and the Republican demand for a reduction in government intervention. The Republicans lost...but only because Barry was able to bribe legislators, bribe unions, bribe corporations, etc.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yup; sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
    Yup, that's why we picked HCR instead of an unsustainable status quo.
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Thats why 50% of the voters dont vot during national elections. The Reps are against bills that the Dems want, although the Reps like the bill. Of course the Dems are no better when there sitting on the bench.
    Liberalism is freedom from tyranny. People of world unite to free us from Wallstreet!

    Republicanism is just another word for remaining selfish and ego-centric!

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yup, that's why we picked HCR instead of an unsustainable status quo.
    No one will know for a few years if this bill helps or hurts " bending the cost curve". There is some logic that says that when you increase demand and do not change supply, costs go up not down.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Not an allegation, but an observation of fact. And it's not presented as ana argument. Merely citing said fact.



    Not a talking point...not when Reid & Pelosi promise the most ethical and transparent Congress ever and Barry is promising the most transparent administration ever and promising that this health care debate will be open and transparent. And certainly not merely a talking point when properly acknowledging that the Democrats were arguing that they were seeking bipartisanship.

    Yeah, Paul Ryan, for example, didn't propose anything. The bottomline is that the Republicans and Democrats were moving in totally different directions. They was no compromise between the Democrats demand for a government-controlled outcome and the Republican demand for a reduction in government intervention. The Republicans lost...but only because Barry was able to bribe legislators, bribe unions, bribe corporations, etc.
    Alright. First, your fist paragraph is a bunch of allegations of hypocrisy -- the same thing you were arguing against earlier.

    Second, by framing the debate as "government control" versus reduction in government, you pin your opponents into an ideological corner. This bill is far, far short of absolute government control, and dropping the public option shows a willingness to step away from ideological extremes. In my experience, those making broad ideological arguments aren't looking to compromise.

    I don't want to read too much into your post, but I caution against a "good guy" versus "bad guy" take on politics. That's not the reality of the situation.

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