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Thread: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

  1. #131
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have asked you and you ignored the question, show me where the govt. has ever lowered cost and improved quality of any social engineering program. Theory never generates results because it doesn't and cannot address human behavior.

    We have a roadmap of how Universal Healthcare will work, MA. Keep ignoring the results there just like you ignore the ER usage, doctor shortage all because you believe what you are told by liberals whose sole source of power comes from people like you.

    Is human behavior ever going to play a role in your decision making process? Heathcare is an individual responsibility and affected by what you consume and how you live.
    Would you argue people are not better off today then they were in the 30's? The 1800's? The 60's? Do you know many who would give medicare back? Those using medicaid want to give it back?

    As messy as it has been, as imperfect, government programs have contributed to a better overall standard of living. I've answered this for you many times already.

    Today the Ford Foundation named 25 creative and effective government programs as finalists for the Innovations in American Government Awards and granted them each $20,000 for their unique approaches to public policy. On October 23, the 10 most innovative and effective programs will each receive awards of $100,000 after a public competition in Washington, D.C.

    25 Creative, Productive Government Programs Earn $20,000 Grants as Finalists for Innovations in American Government Awards | Newsroom | Ford Foundation

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5YdqbPMPNg"]YouTube- Myth: Government Run or Funded Programs Don't Work[/nomedia]

    SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WORK

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Would you argue people are not better off today then they were in the 30's? The 1800's? The 60's? Do you know many who would give medicare back? Those using medicaid want to give it back?

    As messy as it has been, as imperfect, government programs have contributed to a better overall standard of living. I've answered this for you many times already.

    Today the Ford Foundation named 25 creative and effective government programs as finalists for the Innovations in American Government Awards and granted them each $20,000 for their unique approaches to public policy. On October 23, the 10 most innovative and effective programs will each receive awards of $100,000 after a public competition in Washington, D.C.

    25 Creative, Productive Government Programs Earn $20,000 Grants as Finalists for Innovations in American Government Awards | Newsroom | Ford Foundation

    YouTube- Myth: Government Run or Funded Programs Don't Work

    SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WORK
    You need to define success because your definition of success and mine are different just like your view as to the role of the Federal Government and mine.

    Success to me is solving a social problem and going away, not massive expansion. Individuals getting benefits can deem something a success because of the live for today ideology not the cost of that care or the fact that it could have been generated cheaper and better.

    You would call a problem like SS a succes because it provided income to individuals who didn't save for themselves. i call it a failure because of the debt it has created that has to be paid for. Which of us is right? Does debt matter to you? Seems it mattered when Bush was in office.

    Bush left office the debt was 10.7 trillion, through March of this year Obama has added 2.1 trillion. How does that grab you?

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Success to me is solving a social problem and going away, not massive expansion.
    As if all problems can be permanently solved and go away.

    Medicare, for instance, solved the problem of the elderly having no health insurance. The elderly aren't going to go away. There will only be more of them.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You need to define success because your definition of success and mine are different just like your view as to the role of the Federal Government and mine.

    Success to me is solving a social problem and going away, not massive expansion. Individuals getting benefits can deem something a success because of the live for today ideology not the cost of that care or the fact that it could have been generated cheaper and better.

    You would call a problem like SS a succes because it provided income to individuals who didn't save for themselves. i call it a failure because of the debt it has created that has to be paid for. Which of us is right? Does debt matter to you? Seems it mattered when Bush was in office.

    Bush left office the debt was 10.7 trillion, through March of this year Obama has added 2.1 trillion. How does that grab you?
    It is often good to define terms. Success is more than just money. Does it improve our overall standard of living should be part of that definition. Most of them have.

    And the largest problem with SS is it did more than it was intended to do. This should require a rethinking of it. And it too is the subject of much demonizing and misinformation (democrats wrongly used the kill granny card. It's no more right when they do it). But doing more than it was designed to do does raise a few questions. And hardly marks it as a failure.

    Again, government is us, the people. It works for us, by us. We can change the face of government every election cycle. And we can solve problems through the government. And we always have. There's nothing new in it.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It is often good to define terms. Success is more than just money. Does it improve our overall standard of living should be part of that definition. Most of them have.

    And the largest problem with SS is it did more than it was intended to do. This should require a rethinking of it. And it too is the subject of much demonizing and misinformation (democrats wrongly used the kill granny card. It's no more right when they do it). But doing more than it was designed to do does raise a few questions. And hardly marks it as a failure.



    Again, government is us, the people. It works for us, by us. We can change the face of government every election cycle. And we can solve problems through the government. And we always have. There's nothing new in it.
    It hardly marks it a success when it has grown to the level it has grown to now. It is an example however of history and how govt. spending in the name of compassion never really generates compassionate results. It does however create dependence and thus power.

    Yours is a very naive approach and although admirable it lacks reality. Less than 50% of the eligible voters in this country choose to vote so what we are getting is minority rule. What we have now is a leftwing minority in office implementing a socialist agenda and selling people like you on the benefits. There is no such thing as a free lunch when promoted by the govt. By nature our 3.8 trillion dollar govt. is bloated and ineffecient yet you have no problem making it bigger. It is sad when seemingly intelligent people simply rollover and buy the crap our govt. is feeding us today.

  6. #136
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Probably not exactly like, but that doesn't matter. The objection to the mandate is not because of anything else in the bill, but because of it alone. The cry is for no mandate all under any circumstance. There is really no way explain this outside of disingenuous partisanship.
    I don't believe for a minute that righwing objections are only on one issue that resembles something they proposed twenty years ago. Come on!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It hardly marks it a success when it has grown to the level it has grown to now. It is an example however of history and how govt. spending in the name of compassion never really generates compassionate results. It does however create dependence and thus power.

    Yours is a very naive approach and although admirable it lacks reality. Less than 50% of the eligible voters in this country choose to vote so what we are getting is minority rule. What we have now is a leftwing minority in office implementing a socialist agenda and selling people like you on the benefits. There is no such thing as a free lunch when promoted by the govt. By nature our 3.8 trillion dollar govt. is bloated and ineffecient yet you have no problem making it bigger. It is sad when seemingly intelligent people simply rollover and buy the crap our govt. is feeding us today.
    Growth may indicate a need. Again, I don't see anyone winning an argument to give it up. And as many, many use it, to a greater degree than designed, can hardly be called ineffective.

    And yes, too few people vote. You really want to change things, work to change that. People who don't vote, accept the minority rule. They have no basis to complain.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I don't believe for a minute that righwing objections are only on one issue that resembles something they proposed twenty years ago. Come on!
    But the rightwing has objected to the mandate. Right?

  9. #139
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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I don't believe for a minute that righwing objections are only on one issue that resembles something they proposed twenty years ago. Come on!
    Never argued they only have one objection. But they do object to this alone. They don't argue that the mandate would be fine if. They argue that there should be no mandate.

    Also, it isn't the only idea in the bill that is theirs.

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    Re: New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They were for it before they were against it.
    And I'm sure they will be for it again when we later try to upgrade to a single payer system.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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