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New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

Health insurance also protects us from someone else. We pay for the irresponsible, so when they have insurance, we are protected from them.

As for consequences, you're being too hyperbolic.

No, this bill does nothing to change personal behavior and personal responsibility. Bill those who use the ER's instead of the taxpayer. If foreign bill the State Dept.

Like with everything else, a liberal will tear down the house to remodel the bathroom. Now answer the question, why should rich people be forced to buy insurance?
 
Like with everything else, a liberal will tear down the house to remodel the bathroom.

Actually, that happens in my neighborhood, because it makes more economic sense sometimes.
 
No, this bill does nothing to change personal behavior and personal responsibility. Bill those who use the ER's instead of the taxpayer. If foreign bill the State Dept.

Like with everything else, a liberal will tear down the house to remodel the bathroom. Now answer the question, why should rich people be forced to buy insurance?

Incorrect. Right now we are paying for those who use the er. Period. Until you recognize this, you have it all wrong.
 
Incorrect. Right now we are paying for those who use the er. Period. Until you recognize this, you have it all wrong.

Only if the ER doesn't bill the insurance company of the insured. There is nothing in this bill that prevents the insured from going to the ER's.

Still won't answer the question because you know the answer. Why should the govt. demand that people who can fund their own insurance be forced to buy insurance that does nothing to lower the cost of healthcare?

You are losing this argument badly but then again I am sure down deep you realize that.
 
Only if the ER doesn't bill the insurance company of the insured. There is nothing in this bill that prevents the insured from going to the ER's.

Still won't answer the question because you know the answer. Why should the govt. demand that people who can fund their own insurance be forced to buy insurance that does nothing to lower the cost of healthcare?

You are losing this argument badly but then again I am sure down deep you realize that.

The insured can pay. And I have answered. It does lower cost because they will be covered and can get care paid for.
 
The insured can pay. And I have answered. It does lower cost because they will be covered and can get care paid for.

Then why is the taxpayer funding insured ER room services? You are overstating as usual the taxpayer responsibility which now seems to be mostly illegals and insured. You don't need this POS to handle those who cannot pay.
 
I educated MYSELF...

I found my own work...

I bought my own insurance...

NOW my insurance goes up (17% increase), my taxes go up (here comes the VAT) and my quality of care goes down (more people/less Docs=Less Quality)... GOOD JOB Progressives! Now that you have insured those that didn't want it we can all pay for it!

Obamacare is:

Those who pay for those who CAN'T....
Forced to pay for those who WON'T...
By those that have the guns..

Requiring a product to be bought by citizen is by no means constitutional.. you can put lipstick on a pig, but it still smells like SH!T!

As an ex-contractor: If you or your neighbor wants to remodel his kitchen and winds up tearing his house down to do it.. Then your neighbor (or you) is an IDIOT! ... (or just a liberal)
 
You don't need this POS to handle those who cannot pay.

.. you ONLY need it to to advance the progressive agenda .. nothing more.. WELL there is that whole entitlement-slave-voter-base thing though..:doh
 
Then why is the taxpayer funding insured ER room services? You are overstating as usual the taxpayer responsibility which now seems to be mostly illegals and insured. You don't need this POS to handle those who cannot pay.

Insured not a problem, as they can pay. They are insured. Illegals are not covered and will be a problem until we deal with illegals, which neither party wants to do.

But uninsured who visit, and the number is significant, cost us all. We pay right now. Not only there, but in other treatments and hospitalizations in which people can't pay.
 
Only if the ER doesn't bill the insurance company of the insured. There is nothing in this bill that prevents the insured from going to the ER's.

Still won't answer the question because you know the answer. Why should the govt. demand that people who can fund their own insurance be forced to buy insurance that does nothing to lower the cost of healthcare?

You are losing this argument badly but then again I am sure down deep you realize that.

Do you really believe millionaires don't carry health insurance? I'd say that's hardly likely. The more people have, the more likely they are not to want to pay out of pocket, or risk losing everything. If a millionaire doesn't have insurance it'd be easy for him to pay a fine, if he has any liquid assets.

If Obama could have gone universal right now it may have actually been better than beatin' 'round the bush. We are going to have to pay for the ne'er do wells, the real poor and handicapped no matter what, so we should have just went all the way the first go 'round.

How long do you figure it will take the insurance companies to go under with this Obama scheme anyway? I'd say it's going to happen very quickly. :shock:
 
Marilyn Monroe;1058682989]Do you really believe millionaires don't carry health insurance? I'd say that's hardly likely. The more people have, the more likely they are not to want to pay out of pocket, or risk losing everything. If a millionaire doesn't have insurance it'd be easy for him to pay a fine, if he has any liquid assets.

Yes, I know millionaires that do not carry healthcare insurance and don't need to as they have enough money to pay for whatever they need.

If Obama could have gone universal right now it may have actually been better than beatin' 'round the bush. We are going to have to pay for the ne'er do wells, the real poor and handicapped no matter what, so we should have just went all the way the first go 'round.

Why would you support Universal Healthcare run by the Govt? Please give me any govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, does what it was supposed to do, solved a problem. Your willing support of govt. run anything is dangerous at best but very naive. MA care is bankrupt, SS is bankrupt, Medicare is bankrupt.

How long do you figure it will take the insurance companies to go under with this Obama scheme anyway? I'd say it's going to happen very quickly. :shock:

I agree, it won't take long for the govt. to take over and will do so under the claim that those evil insurance companies cannot provide the necessary service while some will indeed go out of business.
 
Yes, I know millionaires that do not carry healthcare insurance and don't need to as they have enough money to pay for whatever they need.

This is great if it's what they want to do because insurance has made it pretty much impossible for most of us to go to the doctor, have a few tests run, get meds without having a fairly enormous bill to pay. Insurance made it possible for many of us to live longer with less complications, cause we can go to the doctor before something is too big of a problem.

I know what it was like before insurance, and if you were poor, healthcare was pretty much out. Only people with "good jobs" had company insurance, and had the opportunity to be healthier than the rest of us.

Even though many of us were able to secure jobs that offered HC as an incentive to work for certain companies there have always been companies that didn't offer it, or they offered crappy insurance, like Walmart, with super high deductibles that had to be met before it paid for anything.

Something really should have been done before insurance became the way to lead a healthy life. But....this is how we evolved to where we're at, and it's always been fairly lop-sided. There are those who have great insurance, and then mediocre, and then none, or almost none. The insurance industry has been a nightmare for doctor's. I can remember when doctor's had a receptionist, and a nurse. That was it. Now they have huge billing departments with sometimes 10 or more employee's.

Why would you support Universal Healthcare run by the Govt? Please give me any govt. run program that cost what it was supposed to cost, does what it was supposed to do, solved a problem. Your willing support of govt. run anything is dangerous at best but very naive. MA care is bankrupt, SS is bankrupt, Medicare is bankrupt.

Social Security is ok till 2041, but will need an increase in payroll deductions of 1.7% and possibly lowering benefit payments to continue.

From npr:
Over the years, Congress has tried various ways to slow the growth of Medicare by limiting payments to health providers, improving efficiencies and opening up parts of the plan to private competition.

In a nutshell, Congress can raise taxes, cut benefits or make changes to the way health care is delivered. It will likely aim for a combination of all three when it tries to overhaul the system later this year.

MHO is the elderly would in many cases be lost without these programs, and those that wouldn't are too greedy to pay their own way. This is how people are, and there's no way to change that.

I agree, it won't take long for the govt. to take over and will do so under the claim that those evil insurance companies cannot provide the necessary service while some will indeed go out of business.

There's truth to some of the "evil insurance claims" but it's true in so many things. The CEO of Aetna makes 24 million a year. Thing is the company has stockholders, and they apparently don't mind what this Williams guy makes.

The insurance companies will just have to do some major sucking up to our Congressman to get them off their backs it would seem.

What would be your solution to the HC mess? How can all people get coverage? You want to keep it private, but I believe that insurance first started out as a union benefit, then in order to keep the unions out, companies started offering HC as a benefit. It's been a vicious cycle that most cmpanies probably wish had never occurred, but I believe a lot of our HC system is so good because of the insurance angle. I just don't know what would be the best. All systems have their flaws.
 
Perhaps Repulican Bill Frist said it best last year ~

"Bill Frist, the former Tennessee senator and senate Republican leader, endorses an individual mandate in today's U.S. News weekly edition. The idea of an individual mandate, which would legally require everyone to buy health insurance, has drawn fire from conservatives and Republicans in recent weeks. But Frist, a heart surgeon, writes that, "the only way affordable access can be achieved is for every citizen to have some type of health insurance." He writes that catastrophic insurance is "an appropriate place to start."

He adds:

I believe in limited government and individual responsibility, cherish the freedom to choose, and generally oppose individual mandates—except where markets fail, individuals suffer, and society pays a hefty price. Let's face it, in a country as productive and advanced as ours, every American deserves affordable access to healthcare delivered at the right time. And they don't have it today.

It is time for an individual health insurance mandate for a minimum level of health coverage."

Frist Endorses Individual Mandate in Healthcare Reform - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)
 
Perhaps Repulican Bill Frist said it best last year ~

"Bill Frist, the former Tennessee senator and senate Republican leader, endorses an individual mandate in today's U.S. News weekly edition. The idea of an individual mandate, which would legally require everyone to buy health insurance, has drawn fire from conservatives and Republicans in recent weeks. But Frist, a heart surgeon, writes that, "the only way affordable access can be achieved is for every citizen to have some type of health insurance." He writes that catastrophic insurance is "an appropriate place to start."

He adds:

I believe in limited government and individual responsibility, cherish the freedom to choose, and generally oppose individual mandates—except where markets fail, individuals suffer, and society pays a hefty price. Let's face it, in a country as productive and advanced as ours, every American deserves affordable access to healthcare delivered at the right time. And they don't have it today.

It is time for an individual health insurance mandate for a minimum level of health coverage."

Frist Endorses Individual Mandate in Healthcare Reform - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)


This healthcare bill has nothing to do with improving the quality of healthcare or reducing costs of healthcare. This is about the unbridled attempt of the most radical Administration in U.S. history to add to their power and create greater dependence. They are doing this by appealing to good people like you, Boo, and others who are only thinking with your hearts.

there are problems in our healthcare system in this country but this POS legislation is going to make things worse. It does not identify healthcare costs but does create more victims. If you truly want healthcare reform the scrap this bill and start over, first identify ALL Costs of healthcare including legal costs, R&D costs, Govt. regulations, then work to increase the infrastructure and cut out the payments for illegal's and bill their countries of origin. All insurance companies to sell across state lines and unleash the power of the American consumer and that will take care of some of the costs.
 
Marilyn Monroe;1058684823]This is great if it's what they want to do because insurance has made it pretty much impossible for most of us to go to the doctor, have a few tests run, get meds without having a fairly enormous bill to pay. Insurance made it possible for many of us to live longer with less complications, cause we can go to the doctor before something is too big of a problem.

Not sure what kind of insurance you have but I have never had a problem with my insurance company preventing visits to doctors and my wife just went through a bout with cancer.

Not sure where you get your information but I don't buy the rhetoric. Healthcare is an individual responsibility not a Govt. responsibility. This healthcare bill has nothing to do with lowering healthcare costs or improving quality because it doesn't address any of the real costs associated with healthcare and it does nothing to increase the number of doctors.


I know what it was like before insurance, and if you were poor, healthcare was pretty much out. Only people with "good jobs" had company insurance, and had the opportunity to be healthier than the rest of us.

Most of the uninsured in this country CHOOSE not to buy insurance for whatever reason and the penalties in this bill aren't going to change that. It doesn't take this massive entitlement program to cover those who cannot afford insurance.

Even though many of us were able to secure jobs that offered HC as an incentive to work for certain companies there have always been companies that didn't offer it, or they offered crappy insurance, like Walmart, with super high deductibles that had to be met before it paid for anything.

I competed against Wal-Mart and you are wrong regarding their insurance program. Many Wal-Mart employees are part time and even the part time have access to health insurance. So get the facts and stop buying what you are reading.


Something really should have been done before insurance became the way to lead a healthy life. But....this is how we evolved to where we're at, and it's always been fairly lop-sided. There are those who have great insurance, and then mediocre, and then none, or almost none. The insurance industry has been a nightmare for doctor's. I can remember when doctor's had a receptionist, and a nurse. That was it. Now they have huge billing departments with sometimes 10 or more employee's.

Having health insurance does not insure good health nor does it assure that people will go to the doctors for routine health checkups.

Do you realize that a large number of insured people are using the emergency rooms because there aren't enough doctors and they cannot get an appointment.


Social Security is ok till 2041, but will need an increase in payroll deductions of 1.7% and possibly lowering benefit payments to continue.

From npr:

There is more money going out of SS now than coming in and it is going to get worse. It has turned into one of the biggest ponzi schemes ever created. Where are your SS contributions going right now?

MHO is the elderly would in many cases be lost without these programs, and those that wouldn't are too greedy to pay their own way. This is how people are, and there's no way to change that.

Agree yet both Medicare and SS were forced contributions. Where did those contributions go? Check out the balanced budget of Clinton to find out. SS money has been used as part of the general budget for decades now.

You contribute to SS and Medicare out of each paycheck. That money is being wasted by your govt. Now you want to create another entitlement program that will lead to the same results.


There's truth to some of the "evil insurance claims" but it's true in so many things. The CEO of Aetna makes 24 million a year. Thing is the company has stockholders, and they apparently don't mind what this Williams guy makes.

Why don't you care what your politicians make and how rich they have become? Why are you so worried about private industry that you can choose to do business with?

The insurance companies will just have to do some major sucking up to our Congressman to get them off their backs it would seem.

Do you realize the profit margin of Insurance Companies? Find out and get back to me.

What would be your solution to the HC mess? How can all people get coverage? You want to keep it private, but I believe that insurance first started out as a union benefit, then in order to keep the unions out, companies started offering HC as a benefit. It's been a vicious cycle that most cmpanies probably wish had never occurred, but I believe a lot of our HC system is so good because of the insurance angle. I just don't know what would be the best. All systems have their flaws.

I answered that question above. Get back with me and tell me where I am wrong. If you truly want healthcare reform then get the politicians out of it.
 
This healthcare bill has nothing to do with improving the quality of healthcare or reducing costs of healthcare. This is about the unbridled attempt of the most radical Administration in U.S. history to add to their power and create greater dependence. They are doing this by appealing to good people like you, Boo, and others who are only thinking with your hearts.

there are problems in our healthcare system in this country but this POS legislation is going to make things worse. It does not identify healthcare costs but does create more victims. If you truly want healthcare reform the scrap this bill and start over, first identify ALL Costs of healthcare including legal costs, R&D costs, Govt. regulations, then work to increase the infrastructure and cut out the payments for illegal's and bill their countries of origin. All insurance companies to sell across state lines and unleash the power of the American consumer and that will take care of some of the costs.

Your response completely ignores what it was responding to, as usual.
 
After reading the first 5 pages of this thread, my conclusion is "professional" politicians who have been in office F-O-R-E-V-E-R will do whatever it takes to retain power - and their jobs - at all cost.

That said, those who continue to wave the banner of "who approved it" or who "owes it" - with "it" being the insurance mandate - missed the point of this thread entirely! Instead of you guys saying "shame on you, Republicans Senators and Congressmen for not acting more responsibly to give the American people a health care bill they can believe in and utilize equitably long before they get sick, transfer jobs, get lead-off or relocate out of state", you give them a pat on the back for doing what? Political posturing? Playing games with OUR health care? Trying to discredit a presidency?

I can only imagine what the health care reform bill could have been had both sides worked together - especially Republicans - instead of grandstanding and spewing misinformation. It really tic's me off how they were once for the insurance mandate as well as other aspects of the health care reform bill but outright refused to vote for it knowing full well that their only purpose for making such "concession" was to get the American people so angry and confused that eventually they would all but demand to vote it down. Fortunately, the Dems rallied together and were able to approved it without a single Republican vote. I say good for them.

But the final health care reform bill could have been so much better if such despicable tactics weren't used.
 
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This healthcare bill has nothing to do with improving the quality of healthcare or reducing costs of healthcare.

We will see! I guess if it does make things better, that's pretty bad news for the Republicans, huh? ;)
 
We will see! I guess if it does make things better, that's pretty bad news for the Republicans, huh? ;)

Define better for me, lower costs to the consumer, lower actual healthcare costs, lower deficit to the taxpayers? Nothing in this bill lowers actual healthcare costs, lowers the deficits, improves the quality of care, or produces an increase in the number of doctors. History tells everyone who has the ability to think that.
 
Not sure what kind of insurance you have but I have never had a problem with my insurance company preventing visits to doctors and my wife just went through a bout with cancer.

Not sure where you get your information but I don't buy the rhetoric. Healthcare is an individual responsibility not a Govt. responsibility. This healthcare bill has nothing to do with lowering healthcare costs or improving quality because it doesn't address any of the real costs associated with healthcare and it does nothing to increase the number of doctors.

I've not had many"problems", but of course the premiums have gone up every year that I can remember. The HMO's got too expensive so we switched to a Consumer Driven Health Plan. What kills me is the way insurance companies negotiate what they pay. If a doctor is in a certain plan he agrees to get paid what the insurance company has offered him beforehand. He may charge $100 an office visit, but the insurance will pay him $65. In some cases there are huge differences in what the doctor charges, and what he actually gets paid, for instance, $10,000 for knee replacement surgery, agreed amount $800. There was a medicine I was prescribed that literally cost $899 a month. Insurance didn't cover it, but they did have a negotiated rate the I could get it for at around $355 a month. Once I pay my deductibles, and get into the PPO part of the insurance it runs $40 a month because it's a namebrand non-formulay. Anyway, I feel like some of this wheeling and dealing isn't completely honest on the part of doctors and insurance companies.

Far as Walmart goes a friend worked there and said the insurance wasn't that great, but it's only hearsay, so I don't know. I do know that some insurances have high deductibles and so you might almost be better off without it except for if you get a catastrophic illness

Most of the uninsured in this country CHOOSE not to buy insurance for whatever reason and the penalties in this bill aren't going to change that. It doesn't take this massive entitlement program to cover those who cannot afford insurance.

The word CHOOSE can be somewhat subjective. Some people may choose not to get it because there are so many bills ahead of it in their particular household. They have said many young people choose not to get HC, but it may be because they have a low paying job, so they choose to take their chances. I know most young people want HC by talking with them.

Having health insurance does not insure good health nor does it assure that people will go to the doctors for routine health checkups.

Having insurance gives people peace of mind, and I believe many more are better off with HC than without. If you teach your kids to do certain things, they'll do them when they are on their own. My kids do.

Do you realize that a large number of insured people are using the emergency rooms because there aren't enough doctors and they cannot get an appointment.

Where I live there are too many doctors if you ask me. There's no problem finding doctor's or specialist's.

I don't understand why anyone would use the ER when there are clinics for minor problems all over the place. Kroger's (grocery store), CVS pharmacies, and some clinics stand alone in rented office space. Plenty of other options to take if you can't get an appointment with a doctor.

There is more money going out of SS now than coming in and it is going to get worse. It has turned into one of the biggest ponzi schemes ever created. Where are your SS contributions going right now?

Agree yet both Medicare and SS were forced contributions. Where did those contributions go? Check out the balanced budget of Clinton to find out. SS money has been used as part of the general budget for decades now.

You contribute to SS and Medicare out of each paycheck. That money is being wasted by your govt. Now you want to create another entitlement program that will lead to the same results.

I found this on Social Security http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/5mythsAboutSocialSecurity.aspx

Why don't you care what your politicians make and how rich they have become? Why are you so worried about private industry that you can choose to do business with?

Do you realize the profit margin of Insurance Companies? Find out and get back to me.

I know insurance companies have low profit margins and what Obama is doing is going to run them out of business unless they start doing some major butt-licking, but I don't know if that will work or not. Obama wants Universal HC, and he's determined to get it. His foot is in the door.

I answered that question above. Get back with me and tell me where I am wrong. If you truly want healthcare reform then get the politicians out of it.

Don't know what will happen, but I suspect it won't be good for those who want to keep HC private.

There are just too many things wrong with our current methods of HC. No President has wanted to get into HC and it's time had come.

I'll have to go back and read what you have written, but no time right now.

Goodnight!
 
Define better for me, lower costs to the consumer, lower actual healthcare costs, lower deficit to the taxpayers? Nothing in this bill lowers actual healthcare costs, lowers the deficits, improves the quality of care, or produces an increase in the number of doctors. History tells everyone who has the ability to think that.

I've already posted the benefits of the HCR, but thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion, its what we've come to expect from you.
 
I've already posted the benefits of the HCR, but thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion, its what we've come to expect from you.

No, you posted promises from an Administration that has yet to keep a promise and lies for their own personal gain. Why you buy what they tell you is unknown or could it be that you really don't understand the true role of our govt.

You are so busy demonizing private business that you ignore the massive size of govt. which now exceeds 3.8 TRILLION Dollars and growing. You buy what you are told because you think with your heart and that no one could possibly be so self centered with this kind of ego to do what Obama is doing. There is only one goal of Obama, to create victims. The Democrat Party of today is doing all it can to keep the "little man" dependent on them for their very existence. That is hardly compassion and one of these days you are going to grow up and realize it if you haven't already and that is what you truly support.
 
There is only one goal of Obama, to create victims.

You are on to our plan! No fooling Conservative huh? We are out to destroy the country. LOL!

If you say it, it must be true, despite an utter lack of evidence! :roll:
 
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