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Thread: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    BSA says without LDS funding it could not continue. LDS is by far the largest donor to the program. LDS has come right out and told BSA that if they EVER allow gay leaders they will pull their funding and start their own Boy Scouts type program. BSA has had financial problems for years. Many councils have sold off all kinds of assets, including camps that have been in BSA for years to get money to stay afloat... even with LDS' funding.
    I wonder why BSA has been floundering? Could it be too many parents are afraid? Could it be too many parents are too busy working to pay the mortgage to be involved? Could it be the religious aspect? Maybe all that and more?

    It's too bad the BSA can't change with the times due to it's Christian foundation.

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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I wonder why BSA has been floundering? Could it be too many parents are afraid? Could it be too many parents are too busy working to pay the mortgage to be involved? Could it be the religious aspect? Maybe all that and more?

    It's too bad the BSA can't change with the times due to it's Christian foundation.
    They have been suffering from the same things many other organizations do. Kids have many more activities to participate in these days. Some may shy away from it due to the religious aspect as much as anything else. Many areas have a shortage of adults willing to be leaders. It takes more time for adults than most activities. Adults must go to Leader Training, Leader meetings, Pack and Troop meetings and on and on. There's a running joke that "It only takes one hour a week." Scouting is not like a baseball league. Most times Cub Scouts units don't like it when a parent simply drops off their son and leaves. We used to joke that BSA stands for "Baby Sitters of America". The catch-22 here is that we don't want certain parents at the meetings and do want others. Boy Scouts is different. It is boy-run, or should be. Also, single parent families, with more than one child, is another challenge and there are more and more of them.

    When a boy joins, especially at the Cub Scout level, the parents are "encouraged" to be a leader or take an active role. You know, it's the many hands philosophy. There is also a huge and constant push from Council to create new units. When that happens, it can draw boys away from existing units. They get funding based on # of units as well as # of boys. The pressure is enormous. I, and my fellow Cub Masters and Committee Chairs, used to get in fierce arguments with the "professionals" about this. They would want to start a new unit as close as one mile away.

    So, all of that certainly does keep many families from joining.

    Re: the religious aspect: No particular religion is pushed. At least it's not supposed to be! Both the Cubs and Boy Scouts programs do have religious badges they can earn. There are many requirements set for many religions. And if a boy's religion doesn't have a badge set up he can work with his leaders to create requirements for his family's religion.

    However, religion and Christianity, is never taught or pushed. At least in non-LDS units. Obviously, they are different.

    After the SCOTUS decision that said BSA is a private org and has the right to set its member policies excluding gays (in previous link) many families pulled their boys and it has effected membership ever since. It's a stupid, discriminatory policy. But, LDS doesn't care. If membership shrinks, they don't care. They will never change that policy.

    Yes, the program is amazing. But, the politics of it suck. My boys got a lot out of it.
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You say "it might as well be" indicating that it is not, as I stated. So if you are going to suggest I "don't know what" I "am talking about" perhaps you shouldn't confirm my absolute correctness prior to suggesting I am misinformed.
    Simply clarifying your statement. To say, "It is not an LDS organization" is not 100% accurate, as I tried to show.

    Wow. Should we go to moveon.org for an objective view of republicans?
    Per usual, you like to attack the source. It happens to be very accurate. And yes, I would suggest you go to MoveOn to learn about Repubs because Repubs can't be trusted.

    If you find something wrong with the content of the link then by all means... spew.
    Last edited by ADK_Forever; 03-22-10 at 04:30 PM.
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    You can be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest all you want.
    How am I being dishonest?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    No, religion is not irrelevant. Especially since we are talking about a religious organization.
    So organizations that have young people interacting alone with older people aren't going to attract pedophiles? Now call me some Bible-thumping nut job all you want, but that seems to be a pretty big factor in attracting pedos, to me. I'm not really sure where religion falls into this. Are abusive uncles all Christian? Please, show me evidence that the abuse took place because the BSA is a "Christian" organization and not the conventional wisdom that pedos are attracted to youth organizations in general.
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Religion cannot be irrelevant in an organisation that denies membership to atheists.
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Religion cannot be irrelevant in an organisation that denies membership to atheists.
    I never denied that. It was in response to:

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Well, it is a Christian organization after all. Did you expect some different outcome than other Christian organizations where religious men can be alone with boys?
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    They have been suffering from the same things many other organizations do. Kids have many more activities to participate in these days. Some may shy away from it due to the religious aspect as much as anything else. Many areas have a shortage of adults willing to be leaders. It takes more time for adults than most activities. Adults must go to Leader Training, Leader meetings, Pack and Troop meetings and on and on. There's a running joke that "It only takes one hour a week." Scouting is not like a baseball league. Most times Cub Scouts units don't like it when a parent simply drops off their son and leaves. We used to joke that BSA stands for "Baby Sitters of America". The catch-22 here is that we don't want certain parents at the meetings and do want others. Boy Scouts is different. It is boy-run, or should be. Also, single parent families, with more than one child, is another challenge and there are more and more of them.

    When a boy joins, especially at the Cub Scout level, the parents are "encouraged" to be a leader or take an active role. You know, it's the many hands philosophy. There is also a huge and constant push from Council to create new units. When that happens, it can draw boys away from existing units. They get funding based on # of units as well as # of boys. The pressure is enormous. I, and my fellow Cub Masters and Committee Chairs, used to get in fierce arguments with the "professionals" about this. They would want to start a new unit as close as one mile away.

    So, all of that certainly does keep many families from joining.

    Re: the religious aspect: No particular religion is pushed. At least it's not supposed to be! Both the Cubs and Boy Scouts programs do have religious badges they can earn. There are many requirements set for many religions. And if a boy's religion doesn't have a badge set up he can work with his leaders to create requirements for his family's religion.

    However, religion and Christianity, is never taught or pushed. At least in non-LDS units. Obviously, they are different.

    After the SCOTUS decision that said BSA is a private org and has the right to set its member policies excluding gays (in previous link) many families pulled their boys and it has effected membership ever since. It's a stupid, discriminatory policy. But, LDS doesn't care. If membership shrinks, they don't care. They will never change that policy.

    Yes, the program is amazing. But, the politics of it suck. My boys got a lot out of it.
    Thanks for that info. Although, isn't the Scouts credo:
    On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

    I think we all know which god... same one on our money and in the pledge.

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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    How am I being dishonest?
    Keep pretending like you don't get it. it's funny to watch.

    So organizations that have young people interacting alone with older people aren't going to attract pedophiles? Now call me some Bible-thumping nut job all you want, but that seems to be a pretty big factor in attracting pedos, to me. I'm not really sure where religion falls into this. Are abusive uncles all Christian? Please, show me evidence that the abuse took place because the BSA is a "Christian" organization and not the conventional wisdom that pedos are attracted to youth organizations in general.
    you must have forgotten that the organization in question is religious. But please, keep up the comedy.

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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Keep pretending like you don't get it. it's funny to watch.
    Is this some kind of joke? How am I being dishonest in saying that Boy Scouts isn't a Christian organization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    you must have forgotten that the organization in question is religious. But please, keep up the comedy.
    Religious =/= Christian. The organization doesn't push one religion over the other. It just says no Atheists, and most troops don't make a big deal out of it.

    More importantly what does religion have to do with the abuse? Just answer the question.
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    Re: Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    When I was a trainer in BSA we taught ways to protect the boys and the adults how to help avoid situations where any abuse could happen, and where a false accusation could arise. There was always to be at least 3 people in every goup, either 2 adults with one boy or 2 kids with one adult. This was to be followed whenever a non-relative adult escorted a boy anywhere! No excuses. I took a lot of **** for enforcing this 100%.

    There was also reference checking and questionaires asking for permission to do a police background check. If any adult balked at filling the app after being told of that question we HAD to report them. Evidence didn't matter. Someone higher up would look into it.

    So, there are indeed BSA rules and procedures in place to help minimize the chances of any abuse happening. I lost a good friend when he found out I reported him when he acted funny, and decided not to fill out the app, after I explained the question and its reason to him. Turns out he had other illegalities to hide that had nothing to do with pedophilia. Didn't matter to me. My obligation, as a Cubmaster, to protect my boys was priority #1. Most BSA leaders take this seriously. The problem is usually with those at the top who have political reasons for hiding abuse complaints.

    Boy and Cub Scouts is in effect a candy store for pedophiles. They are going to try to get in there. It's up to the leaders to Do Their Best to stop them. BSA is a great program that offers so much for our young men. It's a real shame that this **** ruins it for so many.
    Finally something we agree on. My sons were in BS, and I was on the troop committee. Every troop my boys were in enforced the rules and conducted all the training. It's the first training taught to boy scouts and adults, and they have to sign their scout manuals attesting they've completed it. The BS have a program in place that goes up the chain, so no one should get the idea that the BS are not addressing this.
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