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CBO Numbers [have just come out]

RightinNYC said:
The bulk of that post is taken directly from the CBO's letter. Like I said, there's only so much I can do for you.
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and yet you cannot offer anything which undermines the CBO's presentation

wait ... you did (try to) use the CBO report as evidence against itself

too funny
 
Ockham said:
So you're okay with the status quo, as long as it's YOUR status quo. Laughable.
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Nope. Didn't say that at all. Don't straw man me. Read my words.
 
justabubba said:
and yet you cannot offer anything which undermines the CBO's presentation

wait ... you did (try to) use the CBO report as evidence against itself

too funny
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double counting a quarter T aint funny
 
The Prof said:
there're rumors of a lot more bribes

a nasa appointment for tennessee's gordon who's retiring

an ambassadorship for tanner of tennessee

a bank exemption concerning school loans for dakota

the connecticut hospital deal is still in for dodd

more water for the central valley's cardoza and costa

lots of bribes still in there and not enough time for people even to read the bill to find em all
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McConnell and company have warned these guys that their appointments will be filibustered, so it's a waste to vote for the bill based on such bribes.

Kucinich said this morning on Fox that Obama promised him this is just PHASE I, and that a public option is still in the works for PHASE II.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4116056/kucinich-defends-health-care-switch

So I ask, how can we go by a CBO score that is only a small part of a bigger plan to come? (They already found another $371 billion additional cost this morning, btw)
 
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washunut said:
As to the taxes that are going to be raised. In case folks forgot we have a $1.3 trillion deficit so who thinks taxes do not have to be raised to help offset that. >>

It'll be a good excuse to raise the super rich taxes to 90 percent. That's what it was back in the sixties. Athletes, movie stars, and execs pulling down $20 million a year will just have to squeak by with a mere $2 million.

ricksfolly
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Erod said:
So I ask, how can we go by a CBO score that is only a small part of a bigger plan to come? (They already found another $371 billion additional cost this morning, btw)
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>>

Estimates of future profits have have no credibility unless you can compare it with the future losses of doing nothing over the same time period.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
>>

Estimates of future profits have have no credibility unless you can compare it with the future losses of doing nothing over the same time period.

ricksfolly
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What profits?
 
in normal american politics there is just way too much poison in and surrounding this bill for it to have even the slightest chance

unfortunately, this party in power is not normal

american politics, however, still is

the party will be replaced

patience
 
politics is in the gut

mine tells me that the obamites IN THIS FORUM are very nervous about passage of this bill this way

they are wise

there's no doubt what's gonna happen to the party of pelosi

whether this piece passes or not

her fingerprints are all over it

party on, progressives
 
The Prof said:
politics is in the gut

mine tells me that the obamites IN THIS FORUM are very nervous about passage of this bill this way

they are wise

there's no doubt what's gonna happen to the party of pelosi

whether this piece passes or not

her fingerprints are all over it

party on, progressives
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She doesn't care. The academicians in this land will trumpet her from the highest hill. "The evil Republicans took away what Nancy gave humanity." That's her vindication.

So, so sad.
 
RightinNYC said:
Why don't you link me to something showing that Medicare Part D added a trillion to the deficit? My numbers, directly from the CBO, indicate that the cost for the first 10 years of benefits is $549.2b, just $15b higher than the original projection.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2009.pdf

Page 126.
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"Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion."

2009 ANNUAL REPORT OF THE BOARDS OF TRUSTEES OF THE FEDERAL HOSPITAL INSURANCE AND FEDERAL SUPPLEMENTARY MEDICAL INSURANCE TRUST FUNDS, Table III.C19.—Operations of the Part D Account in the SMI Trust Fund (Cash Basis) during Calendar Years 2004-2018, Page 120 (Page 126 in pdf) http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2009.pdf
Medicare Part D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"2001 tax cut - "$1.35 trillion tax cut program — one of the largest in U.S. history."

"(CBO) has estimated that extending the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts (which are scheduled to expire in 2010) would cost the U.S. Treasury nearly $1.8 trillion in the following decade, dramatically increasing federal deficits"
Economic policy of the George W. Bush administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


How about you read the CBO letter and quote me the language saying it will save $1.2T over the second decade. (Of course, that all assumes that the excise tax, premium reductions, and doctor fixes will be untouched. Do you really think that's going to happen?
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"Over the 2010–2019 period, the net cost of the coverage expansions wouldbe more than offset by the combination of other spending changes, which CBO estimates would save $426 billion, and receipts resulting from the
income tax surcharge on high-income individuals and other provisions,
which JCT and CBO estimate would increase federal revenues by
$572 billion over that period."
Powered by Google Docs

That totals $998 billion in deficit reduction right there.
 
Catawba said:
"Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion."
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Even setting aside the fact that $727b =/= $1T, can you think of a reason why the projections for expenditures from 2009-2018 are entirely non-responsive to the claim that the program, which was passed in 2003, cost $549b over the first 10 years of expenditures?

"Over the 2010–2019 period, the net cost of the coverage expansions wouldbe more than offset by the combination of other spending changes, which CBO estimates would save $426 billion, and receipts resulting from the
income tax surcharge on high-income individuals and other provisions,
which JCT and CBO estimate would increase federal revenues by
$572 billion over that period."
Powered by Google Docs

That totals $998 billion in deficit reduction right there.
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I asked you for evidence from this letter showing that the current bill will result in savings of $1.2T over the second decade.

You responded with a quote from an October 2009 letter analyzing a different bill and discussing spending in the program's first decade.

...
 
Power Line has some interesting observations about a letter sent by the Democratic Party to spokesmen throughout the party to counter the CBO message. ENd result? Do not talk about the details.

Power Line - "Do Not Allow Yourself to Get Into a Discussion of the Details"

Here are the photocopies:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2010/03/DemsMemop12.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2010/03/DemMemop22.php

My favorite is the "doc fix" whereby fee reductions in Medicare are not addressed in the Healthcare Bill allowing them to claim it as a reduction, but the CBO analysis notes that this has happened in the past and they have always stopped it from happening with a "doc fix" bill otherwise many doctors would leave the Medicare program as rates dropped. They will address this as a separate piece of legislation.

The Democrats are counting this as savings. What bull****!
 
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reefedjib said:
Power Line has some interesting observations about a letter sent by the Democratic Party to spokesmen throughout the party to counter the CBO message. ENd result? Do not talk about the details.

Power Line - "Do Not Allow Yourself to Get Into a Discussion of the Details"

Here are the photocopies:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2010/03/DemsMemop12.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2010/03/DemMemop22.php

My favorite is the "doc fix" whereby fee reductions in Medicare are not addressed in the Healthcare Bill allowing them to claim it as a reduction, but the CBO analysis notes that this has happened in the past and they have always stopped it from happening with a "doc fix" bill otherwise many doctors would leave the Medicare program as rates dropped. They will address this as a separate piece of legislation.

The Democrats are counting this as savings. What bull****!
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The dems are claiming that they didn't author that memo, and politico has pulled it until they can verify the authenticity.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...plan-doc-fix-after-reform.html#post1058628930
 
reefedjib said:
Okay, the memo is being denied and is in question. Thanks for pointing this out.

Does that change the facts around the $370 billion "doc fix" being left out of the healthcare plan, to be passed as separate legislation later?
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Of course not:
Q: Madam Speaker, on the Medicare question, the so-called doctor fix, can you speak to why that was not included in this legislation?

Speaker Pelosi. Well, we have been including it in legislation for a long time, because it's not about a doctor fix, it's about our seniors or anyone who relies upon Medicare to have access to physicians, that they be in their region and in their program.

So this is again, you call it the doctor fix, but it is really about access to health care for Americans. It's not in this bill, but we will have it soon. And we have made a commitment to do this. This is very important.
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More on The Doc Fix Mystery Noted Below | Talking Points Memo
 
reefedjib said:
Why would they leave it out?
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Don't get me wrong - I think that the substance of that memo accurately reflects the Dems mindset. I just don't know about its origins.
 
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