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Thread: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    I heard reports of a lot of double counting of savings. Evidently there is more than a Trillion dollars of it: Medicare savings, off bill doctor payments, Social Security cuts...

    What a load of crap this bill is.

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "parliamentary experts of both parties said the tactic has been used with increasing frequency in recent years by Democrats and Republicans alike, usually earlier in the legislative process. And political analysts wrangled over whether the use of the "self-executing rule," also known as a "deem and pass," would further antagonize an electorate whose enthusiasm for Democrats has dimmed in the past year.

    Legal scholars disagreed about whether it would be a constitutional way to pass the legislation. Yet even critics said they doubt that the procedure would put the measure at risk of being struck down by the courts."
    washingtonpost.com
    I don't care how many times it's been used. It throws checks and balances out the window.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    As the entire nation inhales and exclaims a simultaneous "BULL****!"

    LOL

    I mean, does ANYONE actually believe this will reduce the deficit? Really? LOL
    Explain why it won't, Mr. Expert, in detail.

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "parliamentary experts of both parties said the tactic has been used with increasing frequency in recent years by Democrats and Republicans alike, usually earlier in the legislative process. And political analysts wrangled over whether the use of the "self-executing rule," also known as a "deem and pass," would further antagonize an electorate whose enthusiasm for Democrats has dimmed in the past year.

    Legal scholars disagreed about whether it would be a constitutional way to pass the legislation. Yet even critics said they doubt that the procedure would put the measure at risk of being struck down by the courts."
    washingtonpost.com
    Let's let the courts decide. Can't wait for the passage and Obama to sign his and the Democrats own execution orders. Something about chickens and roosting comes to mind.

    And let me be clear...(lol) Deem and pass has been used before however, as a joint resolution/ bill. This means it passes with and without legislation and the joint resolution is "deemed" to have passed. Then if the Senate approves it, it goes the President who signs and it's done. But that's not what's happening with Health Care. That's been done using a joint resolution and one bill - many times and it's a ****ty process to use.

    Slaughter Solution isn't pushing one joint resolution but two legislative measures in a single vote, Health Care and Reconciliation. That's never been done before - or if it has, I wish someone would post it. It goes to the Senate but any amendments taken by the Senate would have to go back to the House for again, approval and an up/down vote so we know that's not going to happen and all amendments will ultimately be rejected. (It the House can't pass it with a vote now, they won't with amendments).. I digress.... Obama then signs the HC bill but DOESN'T specifically sign the Reconciliation bill that the House deemed.

    The Slaughter motion stipulates only some of the legislative stuff that the House approved gets to be signed into law the remainder doesn't. That's why it's Un-Constitutional, per the Section 1 Article 7.
    Last edited by Ockham; 03-18-10 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Added a sentence.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I don't care how many times it's been used. It throws checks and balances out the window.
    Not really. It's just an indirect vote, for the rule instead of the bill. Everyone will know that anyway and vote up or down on the rule as if it were the bill.

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I heard reports of a lot of double counting of savings. Evidently there is more than a Trillion dollars of it: Medicare savings, off bill doctor payments, Social Security cuts...

    What a load of crap this bill is.
    Wow, you heard it. It must be true then.

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    If it is, then this defeats the purpose of the motion.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    See the above posts. Most of the benefits don't kick in until 2014, but taxes go up sooner. These estimates rely on the government following the bill to the letter, which almost never happens. Government projects have a history ballooning costs. Being deficeit neutral relies on the future Medicare cuts that probably won't happen. In other words there is no way that government can increase its scope this much and still cut costs.
    No one said deficit reduction would be easy. I suppose we could have just put a trillion dollars on the tab as Bush did with his prescription card program, and the other trillion the Republicans put on the tab for the tax cuts for the wealthy, but I prefer paying for programs up front. CBO estimates are usually conservative.

    Its kind of funny seeing how in 1998, the Republicans threatened to cut budget funding of the CBO because they thought their cost estimates were too conservative.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No one said deficit reduction would be easy.
    What deficit reduction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I suppose we could have just put a trillion dollars on the tab as Bush did with his prescription card program, and the other trillion the Republicans put on the tab for the tax cuts for the wealthy, but I prefer paying for programs up front. CBO estimates are usually conservative.
    Well, that's exactly what happened already... without the health care bust.

    National Debt Up $2 Trillion on Obama's Watch - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its kind of funny seeing how in 1998, the Republicans threatened to cut budget funding of the CBO because they thought their cost estimates were too conservative.
    The times they are a changin'.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    half the "deficit reduction" comes from "savings" supposedly found in school loans

    there is a quarter tril doc fix, not paid for

    House passes Medicare 'doc fix,' 243-183 - TheHill.com

    there is a double counting of another quarter T, says cbo

    Budget Office Rebuts Democratic Claims on Medicare (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

    there's 10 years of taxes vs 6 of benefits

    RealClearPolitics - Senator Ben Nelson on the Senate Health Care Bill

    cbo scored what leadership put in front of it, naturally

    meanwhile, bay state treasurer tim cahill, overseer of romney-care, says america will go bankrupt if it passes this bill

    Tim Cahill slams Barack Obama, Dems on health care - BostonHerald.com

    pretty much all america knows it

    you can't expand m and m by tens of millions while simultaneously trimming it massively

    as certain as gravity

    the only reason to pass this monstrosity is to try to rescue obama's dead presidency

    and even that won't work

    party on, progressives

    rapidly o'er the precipice

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