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Thread: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

  1. #31
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It does seem to have long term cost saving potential, but I want to hear other estimates before I celebrate. In general, it looks promising.
    What have they even measured? NOBODY knows what this monstrosity will cost. Nobody.

    The Democrats are basically calling this a very early rough draft for healthcare anyway. Again, what are we measuring?

  2. #32
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What have they even measured? NOBODY knows what this monstrosity will cost. Nobody.

    The Democrats are basically calling this a very early rough draft for healthcare anyway. Again, what are we measuring?
    Uh... the cost breakdown and the future cost benefits (within the next two decades) were clearly stated in the OP. So yeah, estimates exist. Are they accurate? Now that's another question. Like I said, I'm waiting to hear other sources weigh in on this. We know the Republicans will overstate the cost, and the Democrats will understate it; so now, let's see what third parties have to say.

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    As the entire nation inhales and exclaims a simultaneous "BULL****!"

    LOL

    I mean, does ANYONE actually believe this will reduce the deficit? Really? LOL

    This changed not a single mind from their previous position.

    Dems, vote for this at your own peril. Republicans may have 90 votes in the Senate by 2012.
    Republicans aren't scoring high on public relations either. The moderate consensus building up goes something like Democrats can't govern and Republicans are crazy. The most likely result of such opinions is a decline in voter turn out.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-18-10 at 06:52 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    [


    i haven't seen the numbers but i give more credibility to the data generated by the CBO/OMB than mindless rants posted without any factual basis to support the opposition[/QUOTE]

    Not sure why you have to use a personal insult. Shows the level of discourse and civility that too many use in this "forum".

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Again, what are we measuring?
    As is customary, the CBO rated the draft legislation provided to them

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    so now, let's see what third parties have to say.
    What third parties are there that are more unbiased and accurate than the CBO?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As is customary, the CBO rated the draft legislation provided to them



    What third parties are there that are more unbiased and accurate than the CBO?
    It's not the CBO that I have major doubts about. It's the information given to the CBO by congressional members.
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Uh... the cost breakdown and the future cost benefits (within the next two decades) were clearly stated in the OP. So yeah, estimates exist. Are they accurate? Now that's another question.
    In this country, government-run programs rarely cost what is estimated- it may even be safe to say they never cost what is projected. There will be a huge bureaucracy because it's a government-run program. They basically have unlimited resources as long as there are enough American taxpayers to pay the bills (which is not looking certain by any means). Government programs do not have to run efficiently because they don't have anyone to answer to. There are no stockholders, no profit margin to be made, and no need to run it like a legitimate business. It will be fraught with waste, abuse, and most likely, fraud.
    Last edited by lizzie; 03-18-10 at 08:42 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As is customary, the CBO rated the draft legislation provided to them
    That's my understanding as well --- the CBO cannot investigate or guess at the amount they just go with what is in front of them. If the bill in front of them is deceptive, the dollar amount they provide reflect that deceptive bill.

    Paul Ryan was interviewed this evening by Mark Levin - who's definately not for this health care bill nor for the Slaughter amendment and is planning on a lawsuit as soon as it's used this weekend (if in fact it is used). Basically Ryan is claiming double dipping and double counting of Medicare cuts, Doctor Fix, SS taxes, etc... to the tune of approximately $900 billion is fake savings.

    Sounds great... certainly worth an airplane ride. [/sarcasm]

    Here's some interesting information as of tonight:
    Mark Levin
    Last edited by Ockham; 03-18-10 at 08:55 PM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #39
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    Here's some interesting information as of tonight:
    "parliamentary experts of both parties said the tactic has been used with increasing frequency in recent years by Democrats and Republicans alike, usually earlier in the legislative process. And political analysts wrangled over whether the use of the "self-executing rule," also known as a "deem and pass," would further antagonize an electorate whose enthusiasm for Democrats has dimmed in the past year.

    Legal scholars disagreed about whether it would be a constitutional way to pass the legislation. Yet even critics said they doubt that the procedure would put the measure at risk of being struck down by the courts."
    washingtonpost.com
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  10. #40
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    Re: CBO Numbers [have just come out]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Very happy to see such a large deficit reduction measure could be passed.

    "Democrats are calling it the "biggest deficit reduction measure in 25 years"--that is, since the 1993 Clinton budget.

    This news should ease the anxiety of reform critics, both in Congress and beyond, who worry that health care reform will bankrupt the government or the country. CBO projections are not an exact science, but they're as reliable as anything we have. If anything, their projections err on the side of excessive caution."

    Dems Get The CBO Score They Want | The New Republic
    See the above posts. Most of the benefits don't kick in until 2014, but taxes go up sooner. These estimates rely on the government following the bill to the letter, which almost never happens. Government projects have a history ballooning costs. Being deficeit neutral relies on the future Medicare cuts that probably won't happen. In other words there is no way that government can increase its scope this much and still cut costs.
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 03-18-10 at 09:08 PM.
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