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Thread: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You're highlighting, but you're not understanding. A proposal that reduces the amount of money being allocated to something is cutting the amount of money being allocated to something.

    I also find it amusing that you're criticizing me for quoting Obama saying that this would be a cut, but your entire argument is based on quoting the opinion of some junior staff writer at CNN or factcheck.



    Why don't you answer my question?

    It's 2001. Medicaid reimbursement rates are scheduled to increase by 5% a year to keep pace with medical inflation. Bush proposes a law that will cut that rate of increase down to 0.1%. Under the status quo, Medicaid expenditures would total $2.5T over the next decade. Under the Bush proposal, Medicaid expenditures would total $2T over the next decade.

    Yes or no: Would Bush's proposal cut Medicaid funding?

    If not, what would it do?
    You're giving an apples to oranges comparison. You're talking about Bush taking away from the pace of medical inflation, which is different than what this bill would do. If Bush was doing what this bill was doing, not attacking inflation, but streamlining in which the cost was shifted to more important areas at less cost, then I would see it the same as this plan and treat it just as it is, not a cut. The present plan is still meeting normal cost of living elements.

    So, if you are going to make a comparison, do so with things that are alike. it's much easier to answer questions about things that actually compare.

  2. #42
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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're giving an apples to oranges comparison. You're talking about Bush taking away from the pace of medical inflation, which is different than what this bill would do. If Bush was doing what this bill was doing, not attacking inflation, but streamlining in which the cost was shifted to more important areas at less cost, then I would see it the same as this plan and treat it just as it is, not a cut. The present plan is still meeting normal cost of living elements.

    So, if you are going to make a comparison, do so with things that are alike. it's much easier to answer questions about things that actually compare.
    Where are you getting this from? You realize that a decrease in future outlays has the exact same effect whether its nominally because of an inflation adjustment or because of "streamlining," right? Unless you're prepared to argue that this $400b being cut from future spending is all coming out of waste, your argument is ridiculous.

    How is reducing reimbursement rates not a cut? Jesus.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Where are you getting this from? You realize that a decrease in future outlays has the exact same effect whether its nominally because of an inflation adjustment or because of "streamlining," right? Unless you're prepared to argue that this $400b being cut from future spending is all coming out of waste, your argument is ridiculous.

    How is reducing reimbursement rates not a cut? Jesus.
    No, they are not the same. One is just a cost of living increase. The other is setting priorities and shifting priorities. There has been no call to cut costs across the board with no structure or plan. Again, read what I linked. It in no way matches your orange.

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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they are not the same. One is just a cost of living increase. The other is setting priorities and shifting priorities. There has been no call to cut costs across the board with no structure or plan. Again, read what I linked. It in no way matches your orange.
    Last attempt to try to explain this to you:

    Say that as of 2001, federal law states that each public school will receive $6,000/student in order to offer them an education. The CBO says that under this law, total federal expenditures on education will equal $500b over the next decade.

    Now, say that Bush proposes to change the law to give each public school $5,000/student, but to give every student below a certain income level a $1,000 voucher to use at the school of their choice. The CBO says that under this law, total federal expenditures on education will equal $450b over the next decade.

    Would Bush's proposal cut federal education funding, or merely "set and shift priorities"?
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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Last attempt to try to explain this to you:

    Say that as of 2001, federal law states that each public school will receive $6,000/student in order to offer them an education. The CBO says that under this law, total federal expenditures on education will equal $500b over the next decade.

    Now, say that Bush proposes to change the law to give each public school $5,000/student, but to give every student below a certain income level a $1,000 voucher to use at the school of their choice. The CBO says that under this law, total federal expenditures on education will equal $450b over the next decade.

    Would Bush's proposal cut federal education funding, or merely "set and shift priorities"?
    Your math seems fuzzy. 6000 for each student would still be 6000 for each student. No cut. How you make that cheaper would be interesting to see, as if it added up to 500b before, it still should.

    But even this is not exactly the same. The change in the medicare system is larger, more program related. Some benefits are being added and others decreased, for a net gain in benefits at less cost. Calling it a cut ignores the truth and dishonestly tries to paint it as something it isn't.

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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your math seems fuzzy. 6000 for each student would still be 6000 for each student. No cut. How you make that cheaper would be interesting to see, as if it added up to 500b before, it still should.
    It seems fuzzy because you missed this:

    but to give every student below a certain income level a $1,000 voucher to use at the school of their choice
    The additional $1,000 would not be given to students above that income level.


    But even this is not exactly the same. The change in the medicare system is larger, more program related. Some benefits are being added and others decreased, for a net gain in benefits at less cost.
    Where are you getting this from? You're literally making things up out of whole cloth.

    It's exactly the same. In both scenarios, the president is redirecting funding from a portion of the program that he finds to be somewhat inefficient and allocating a portion of that redirected funding to something that he believes is more beneficial. In both scenarios, the total expenditures are decreasing. In both scenarios, the president can claim that he's not cutting funding, he's merely "streamlining" the program and finding new efficiences.

    The only difference is that when Obama does it, you praise it, but if Bush did it, you'd be furious.
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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It seems fuzzy because you missed this:
    Yes I did miss that. Gottcha.



    Where are you getting this from? You're literally making things up out of whole cloth.

    It's exactly the same. In both scenarios, the president is redirecting funding from a portion of the program that he finds to be somewhat inefficient and allocating a portion of that redirected funding to something that he believes is more beneficial. In both scenarios, the total expenditures are decreasing. In both scenarios, the president can claim that he's not cutting funding, he's merely "streamlining" the program and finding new efficiences.

    The only difference is that when Obama does it, you praise it, but if Bush did it, you'd be furious.
    I got it from what I linked for you. They are not the same at all. being inefficient is different than what you posted. And adding more efficient portions for less cost makes a net gain.

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    Re: Obama: No Cuts To Medicare

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Barack Obama would NEVER lie about cuts in Medicaid.

    It's not like Medicaid and ObamaCare are a money-losing proposition.

    Nah, according to Obama universal health care will save the country money... somehow, someway...
    That's right! He promised.
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