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Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

Boo Radley said:
:rofl I'm waiting on you. :lol:;)
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You won't have a long wait, when proven wrong I admit it. I have pointed out the history of govt. social spending and you continue to hang your hat on the CBO projections 20 years out. Then I posted the reported change today and you ignored it so apparently one set of CBO books means one thing but another is to be ignored. Easy to see which ones you support.

Still waiting for you to tell us whether or not you ever had to make a payroll? You don't seem to have a clue as to how business works nor the expenses to run a business. All those business taxes in this bill have to be funded by someone. Who do you think pays those bills?
 
Conservative said:
You won't have a long wait, when proven wrong I admit it. I have pointed out the history of govt. social spending and you continue to hang your hat on the CBO projections 20 years out. Then I posted the reported change today and you ignored it so apparently one set of CBO books means one thing but another is to be ignored. Easy to see which ones you support.

Still waiting for you to tell us whether or not you ever had to make a payroll? You don't seem to have a clue as to how business works nor the expenses to run a business. All those business taxes in this bill have to be funded by someone. Who do you think pays those bills?
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You should start by knowing exactly what I'm "hanging my hat on." ;)

The fact is our system was and is failing before reform. The only hope for fixing it is to make some progress moving forward. Standing pat does nothing. And we know from history that republicans will not move on this issue until forced to. Too many are willing to sit back and let us continue to pay for others, spending more and getting less. With this we have a start, so we can now make improvements along the way.
 
Boo Radley said:
You should start by knowing exactly what I'm "hanging my hat on." ;)

The fact is our system was and is failing before reform. The only hope for fixing it is to make some progress moving forward. Standing pat does nothing. And we know from history that republicans will not move on this issue until forced to. Too many are willing to sit back and let us continue to pay for others, spending more and getting less. With this we have a start, so we can now make improvements along the way.
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Why do you say "our" system was failing when over 85% of the people have private coverage and millions of others are capable of having coverage but choose not to purchase it. Since you have never run a business you simply don't know the costs of running that business therefore have no credibility in claiming this was a crisis.

The crisis today is people not having a job. Too bad you don't understand business or freedom of choice. Sounds just like the govt, "spending more and getting less" yet for some reason liberal arrogance always kicks in, "this time it will be different."

You are naive, very naive and always good at spending someone else's money.
 
Conservative said:
Why do you say "our" system was failing when over 85% of the people have private coverage and millions of others are capable of having coverage but choose not to purchase it. Since you have never run a business you simply don't know the costs of running that business therefore have no credibility in claiming this was a crisis.

The crisis today is people not having a job. Too bad you don't understand business or freedom of choice. Sounds just like the govt, "spending more and getting less" yet for some reason liberal arrogance always kicks in, "this time it will be different."

You are naive, very naive and always good at spending someone else's money.
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Millions are uninsured and more are under insured. We pay more for less than most nations. We've seen the numbers. So, yes, it is failing. And this crisis was here before the recent economic crisis. The problem has been with us for decades, getting worse and worse.
 
Boo Radley said:
Millions are uninsured and more are under insured. We pay more for less than most nations. We've seen the numbers. So, yes, it is failing. And this crisis was here before the recent economic crisis. The problem has been with us for decades, getting worse and worse.
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We pay what we choose to pay, some, millions CHOOSE not to buy insurance because they can afford to pay their own way. Like a typical liberal with arrogance you know what is best for everyone else. Why not solve your own personal problems before interjecting yourself into someone else's.

You buy the crisis mentality to expand power and increase dependence. Since you don't run a business, have no idea how business works, you are hardly credible in discussing this issue. Liberal leadership loves people like you who think only with their heart and never use their brain.
 
Boo Radley said:
Millions are uninsured and more are under insured. We pay more for less than most nations. We've seen the numbers. So, yes, it is failing. And this crisis was here before the recent economic crisis. The problem has been with us for decades, getting worse and worse.
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Are you paying any attention to the world news? How is Europe faring with the entitlement mentality that you are trying to build here? Those Europeamn Utopian countries are failing under their own weight, why? What makes you believe we can implement their social model here and do it without the same results?
 
Conservative said:
Are you paying any attention to the world news? How is Europe faring with the entitlement mentality that you are trying to build here? Those Europeamn Utopian countries are failing under their own weight, why? What makes you believe we can implement their social model here and do it without the same results?
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You may be drawing the wrong conclusions. You may be projecting your bias on their troubles. Perhaps you can support your claim?
 
Conservative said:
We pay what we choose to pay, some, millions CHOOSE not to buy insurance because they can afford to pay their own way. Like a typical liberal with arrogance you know what is best for everyone else. Why not solve your own personal problems before interjecting yourself into someone else's.

You buy the crisis mentality to expand power and increase dependence. Since you don't run a business, have no idea how business works, you are hardly credible in discussing this issue. Liberal leadership loves people like you who think only with their heart and never use their brain.
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And we pay for those who choose not to buy insurance. This is in part why a mandate is a good idea (a republican one at that).

Again, you're not really getting my argument. There is a problem, a serious one, that has been with us for a long time. Problem solving doesn't mean anyone has a crisis mentality. :roll:
 
Boo Radley said:
You may be drawing the wrong conclusions. You may be projecting your bias on their troubles. Perhaps you can support your claim?
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My biases? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? My claims have been substantiated, the highest expense in Greece is healthcare and that is what you want to make here as well. As a wage slave you have no clue how to run a business nor do you apparently understand personal responsibility which healthcare is.
 
Boo Radley said:
And we pay for those who choose not to buy insurance. This is in part why a mandate is a good idea (a republican one at that).

Again, you're not really getting my argument. There is a problem, a serious one, that has been with us for a long time. Problem solving doesn't mean anyone has a crisis mentality. :roll:
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Why do we pay for people without insurance? Hospitals should be billing those people and going after assets. In your world there apparently is no personal responsibility and no consequences for poor choices.

Healthcare is NOT a crisis, the unemployment rate is. 85% of the people in this country have insurance with millions more able to purchase but choosing NOT to buy insurance. You again overreact like all liberals do and support this POS legislation because of the way you feel.
 
Conservative said:
My biases? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? My claims have been substantiated, the highest expense in Greece is healthcare and that is what you want to make here as well. As a wage slave you have no clue how to run a business nor do you apparently understand personal responsibility which healthcare is.
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The greatest single expense in the US is health care, also. It accounts for over 17% of the GDP, more than any other single expense. It is also a higher percentage of the GDP than in any other country in the world, including Greece. We will have to face the fact that our health care system is not sustainable sooner or later.
 
Conservative said:
My biases? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? My claims have been substantiated, the highest expense in Greece is healthcare and that is what you want to make here as well. As a wage slave you have no clue how to run a business nor do you apparently understand personal responsibility which healthcare is.
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No, you have not sbstantiated anything. Even if if your claime were true (we actually top the GDP list) .

Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP, second highest to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United Nations member nations.[7] The Health and Human Services Department expects that the health share of GDP will continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5% of GDP by 2017.[35][36] Of each dollar spent on health care in the United States 31% goes to hospital care, 21% goes to physician services, 10% to pharmaceuticals, 8% to nursing homes, 7% to administrative costs, and 23% to all other categories (diagnostic laboratory services, pharmacies, medical device manufacturers, etc.[30]

400px-International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States]Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Conservative said:
Why do we pay for people without insurance? Hospitals should be billing those people and going after assets. In your world there apparently is no personal responsibility and no consequences for poor choices.

Healthcare is NOT a crisis, the unemployment rate is. 85% of the people in this country have insurance with millions more able to purchase but choosing NOT to buy insurance. You again overreact like all liberals do and support this POS legislation because of the way you feel.
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Listen carefully, we've been paying for people without insurance and people under insured for a long time. Why do you want to continue to do so?
 
Dittohead not! said:
The greatest single expense in the US is health care, also. It accounts for over 17% of the GDP, more than any other single expense. It is also a higher percentage of the GDP than in any other country in the world, including Greece. We will have to face the fact that our health care system is not sustainable sooner or later.
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Whose expense, individual or govt? Eliminate a lot of govt. employees and taxpayer costs will go down?

How does this bill lower healthcare costs? Name for me any govt. program that has done what it promised to do at a lower cost?

Our debt isn't sustainable either but that doesn't stop Obama from spending. CBO says now that this bill will increase the deficits so where are the savings?
 
Boo Radley said:
Listen carefully, we've been paying for people without insurance and people under insured for a long time. Why do you want to continue to do so?
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How do you know that WE are paying for people without insurance? you make that claim a lot especially when confused with facts. Millions of people can pay for their own healthcare and hospitals are billing them every day and getting payment. No taxpayer is paying for those fees.

In addition billions are spent annually for illegals, 600,000 in my own country last year. Eliminate those costs, eliminate your misconceptions about taxpayers paying for people who can afford insurance and are paying their own bills and you will find this isn't the crisis you claim it to be.
 
Boo Radley said:
Listen carefully, we've been paying for people without insurance and people under insured for a long time. Why do you want to continue to do so?
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"Your" President is making you look foolish. "never let a good crisis go to waste" is his agenda and "good" people like you continue to buy the rhetoric.



US budget deficit wider-than-expected in April

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The US government suffered a wider-than-expected budget deficit of 82.69 billion dollars in April, the Treasury Department said Wednesday.

It was nearly four times the deficit chalked up a year earlier and the largest ever recorded in April.

Most analysts had expected the April deficit, the 19th consecutive month of federal red ink, to be about 52 billion dollars.

The latest data brought the deficit for the first seven months of the 2010 fiscal year ending September 30 to 799.68 billion dollars, slightly lower than 802.9 billion dollars during the same period last year.

Revenue rose in April to 245.27 billion dollars from March but expenditure also rose, to 327.96 billion dollars, the Treasury figures showed.

"The federal government normally runs a surplus during April because of personal income-tax payments but is running a deficit now because of the recovery from the recession and the policy response," said Augustine Faucher, director of macroeconomics research for Moody's Economy.com.

The White House had warned that the deficit for the 2010 fiscal year could swell to 1.555 trillion dollars, eclipsing the prior year's record of 1.415 trillion dollars due to massive spending to stimulate recovery from the worst recession in decades.

keep buying that Obama rhetoric as your country burns.
 
Conservative said:
Whose expense, individual or govt?
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Both, of course.
Conservative said:
Eliminate a lot of govt. employees and taxpayer costs will go down?
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Yes, of course. Eliminate government employees, and costs go down. And?


Conservative said:
How does this bill lower healthcare costs? Name for me any govt. program that has done what it promised to do at a lower cost?
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That's the unfortunate thing about health care reform. There probably isn't anything in the bill that will actually lower costs. Given opposition from the opposing party to anything that is proposed, and the special interests handing out money to keep the status quo, government hasn't been able to pass any meaningful reform, at least nothing that will rein in costs.

Conservative said:
Our debt isn't sustainable either but that doesn't stop Obama from spending. CBO says now that this bill will increase the deficits so where are the savings?
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The deficits would increase with or without the bill that was just passed. It was not, as Biden said, a "big **** deal." It was not much of a reform. What we need is a universal insurance package that pays for catastrophic costs, but lets the individuals pay for most expenses.

One of the big reasons for the deficit in the first place is cost of health care. We simply can't afford to keep paying 17% and rising of the GDP, neither the public sector nor the private can afford it, and the costs keep rising.
 
Dittohead not!;1058745087]Both, of course.


Yes, of course. Eliminate government employees, and costs go down. And?
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And you get back to more of that vision that our Founders had, small limited central govt. responsible for defending this country and that is about it.


That's the unfortunate thing about health care reform. There probably isn't anything in the bill that will actually lower costs. Given opposition from the opposing party to anything that is proposed, and the special interests handing out money to keep the status quo, government hasn't been able to pass any meaningful reform, at least nothing that will rein in costs.
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Exactly, there isn't anything in this bill that lowers healthcare costs. Govt. is incapable of lowering costs on anything due to its nature of politicians wanting to keep their jobs instead of doing their jobs. Govt. social engineering always costs more than intended, does less than intended, and never has solved a social problem.


The deficits would increase with or without the bill that was just passed. It was not, as Biden said, a "big **** deal." It was not much of a reform. What we need is a universal insurance package that pays for catastrophic costs, but lets the individuals pay for most expenses.
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The nature of politicians is to grow their power and that is what this bill does. I believe healthcare insurance is a personal responsibility just like actual healthcare. Being a personal responsibility including paying for their own expenses.

One of the big reasons for the deficit in the first place is cost of health care. We simply can't afford to keep paying 17% and rising of the GDP, neither the public sector nor the private can afford it, and the costs keep rising.
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I keep hearing the 17% number but no substantiation of that number since we are a free enterprise, capitalistic economy. Since 20% of GDP is Govt, I don't know where that 17% total expense for healthcare comes from. With 20% of the economy govt. spending and consumption the total spent on healthcare is going to be a high percentage of a lower base.
 
Tell the doctors quitting, I have made an underground railroad for them to escape to freedom to Canada. Several more have joined me here, still keeping them under my floorboards.
 
Conservative said:
And you get back to more of that vision that our Founders had, small limited central govt. responsible for defending this country and that is about it.




Exactly, there isn't anything in this bill that lowers healthcare costs. Govt. is incapable of lowering costs on anything due to its nature of politicians wanting to keep their jobs instead of doing their jobs. Govt. social engineering always costs more than intended, does less than intended, and never has solved a social problem.




The nature of politicians is to grow their power and that is what this bill does. I believe healthcare insurance is a personal responsibility just like actual healthcare. Being a personal responsibility including paying for their own expenses.




I keep hearing the 17% number but no substantiation of that number since we are a free enterprise, capitalistic economy. Since 20% of GDP is Govt, I don't know where that 17% total expense for healthcare comes from. With 20% of the economy govt. spending and consumption the total spent on healthcare is going to be a high percentage of a lower base.
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Health Spending Hits 17.3 Percent of GDP In Largest Annual Jump



I believe I read a 16% figure somewhere in this thread. That figure is out of date. The way things are going, the 17.3% figure will soon be out of date, too, and the current will be higher still.
 
Dittohead not! said:

Health Spending Hits 17.3 Percent of GDP In Largest Annual Jump



I believe I read a 16% figure somewhere in this thread. That figure is out of date. The way things are going, the 17.3% figure will soon be out of date, too, and the current will be higher still.
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Do you understand what GDP is? How does anyone determine how much healthcare costs are in a private economy and so what if it is increasing? Where do those costs go and how does a growing GDP hurt the country?

Like with everything else in the liberal world, rising costs seems to be an easy target yet no one can explain how they came up with those numbers and what affect GDP has on govt. revenue and personal income.
 
Conservative said:
Do you understand what GDP is? How does anyone determine how much healthcare costs are in a private economy and so what if it is increasing? Where do those costs go and how does a growing GDP hurt the country?

Like with everything else in the liberal world, rising costs seems to be an easy target yet no one can explain how they came up with those numbers and what affect GDP has on govt. revenue and personal income.
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A growing GDP is a good thing, of course. That health care costs are higher than those of Canada means nothing, as we have 10 times the population of Canada. That health care costs are higher than those of Mexico are meaningless, as the latter has far less to spend on anything. The meaningful comparison is the percent of GDP being spent. Government costs 20%. Health care costs 17%. It would seem that it would be conservatives who would point at rising costs as a bad thing.
 
Dittohead not! said:
A growing GDP is a good thing, of course. That health care costs are higher than those of Canada means nothing, as we have 10 times the population of Canada. That health care costs are higher than those of Mexico are meaningless, as the latter has far less to spend on anything. The meaningful comparison is the percent of GDP being spent. Government costs 20%. Health care costs 17%. It would seem that it would be conservatives who would point at rising costs as a bad thing.
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Rising costs are a bad thing if those rising costs are due to over regulation, govt. intervention, and meaningless legal actions. Not one politician has ever defined the costs of healthcare other than point to what they call obscene profits. I have never seen an obscene profit earned legally. Profits aren't a four letter word. Profits pay dividends to seniors, profits employ people, profits create Research and development of new drugs, new medical treatments, new hospitals. Tell me one bit of a good a politician has created and the benefit they provided to the economy and our GDP?
 
Erod.

The bill passed. Someone tell the Doctors.
:2funny::2funny:
 
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