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Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

Objective Voice;1058715429]I watched the health care summit and read the transcript and was very concerned about the numbers as well. But here's what outraged me more on that matter:

That even while Rep. Ryan uttered the words I was angered that Senate Republicans sat on their hands the entire time throughout the health care debate and did little to nothing to help bring those cost estimates down. So, while you are sitting there blaming Democrats for passing a health care bill that may very well be bloated with "false" cost-saving measures, I blame the Republicans more for working harder to bring discredit a sitting President than to actually accomplish meaningful reform. That to me is a far bigger disappointment than any financial "gimmick" the Democrats could pull.
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The number of uninsured due to an inability to pay has been overstated badly and during these economic times, healthcare is way down the list of necessities. Democrats totally controlled Congress and no Republican idea was even considered.

Obama is discrediting himself not the Republicans. Look I don't care for either party but what Obama is doing isn't in the best interest of the people but is in his own best interest.


Do I care about the overall cost? Yes, absolutely! But I care more that the health care system gets closer and closer to being the very best system it can be. IMO, this health care reform legistlation is a good first-step. It's not the best, but it moves this nation in the right direction which is a far cry better than I give Republicans credit for when they held power. For, if health care reform was so important to them as they said even originally under former Pres. Clinton, why then didn't they make it part of their Republican mandate and do something about it when they held power? And don't give me this notion that Sen. Reid and company thrawrted former Pres. GW Bush's attempts to change the system when he was in office because the Republicans had control during his first few years in office. If Pres. Obama can enact health care reform in just over his first year in office certainly GW Bush could have done the same during his first 2-years if it were truly a priority for his party. But it was not. And yet they knew Medicare was eating away at this nation's budget; but they passed an unfunded Medicare, Part-D entitlement anyway.
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Republicans never had a filibuster proof Congress and the first year in office we had 9/11. healthcare today is not even at the top of the list of concerns in this country. 85-90% of the people in this country have healthcare thus it isn't a concern to them. Why is it such a concern to you? Please don't tell me you care about those who don't have healthcare.

You claim this is a good first step? When the govt. spends this amount of money it better be more than a good first step. That comment just goes to show you have no concept as to how much money a trillion dollars is.

Medicare and SS are supposed to be self funding but Congress put those funds into the General Fund where the money has been spent. That would be the case any program implemented by the govt. They are looking for funds to spend and healthcare funding is just another govt. slush fund.
 
Objective Voice said:
Without real immigration reform, I guess they'll continue to do so. Of course, I don't know if that aspect has been address in the health care reform bill. But since you say you've read it perhaps you can enlighten us...
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Illegal immigration is not mentioned in the healthcare bill.
 
Conserv,

I don't think you can wrap your mind around a trillion dollars either (let alone alot of the BS you're spouting). So, we're even.

As far as a filibuster-proof Congress while GWB was in office, if the Republican ideas were as sound and as responsible as you're making them out to be they wouldn't need one now would they?

What's in health care reform for me? A few good things, ie., allowing my children btwn the ages of 18-26 who aren't in college to come under my health insurance, eliminating pre-existing conditions, capping the annual limit on out-of-pocket expenses, stopping insurance companies from disqualifying me without a suitable appeals process, changing the way certain procedures and/or treatments are coded so that insurance companies don't have to pay for a "covered" expense, and above all standardizing basic insurance packages. There are others, but those were my top picks.

And yes, Medicare and SS have been gov't slush funds for decades. (But...pssst...that started under Reagon...but don't tell anyone because Reps are suppose to be the responsible political party.)
 
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Conservative said:
Illegal immigration is not mentioned in the healthcare bill.
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Wrong again.

Subpart B--Eligibility Determinations

SEC. 1411. PROCEDURES FOR DETERMINING ELIGIBILITY FOR EXCHANGE PARTICIPATION, PREMIUM TAX CREDITS AND REDUCED COST-SHARING, AND INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY EXEMPTIONS.

(a) Establishment of Program- The Secretary shall establish a program meeting the requirements of this section for determining--

(1) whether an individual who is to be covered in the individual market by a qualified health plan offered through an Exchange, or who is claiming a premium tax credit or reduced cost-sharing, meets the requirements of sections 1312(f)(3), 1402(e), and 1412(d) of this title and section 36B(e) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 that the individual be a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States;
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Well, there you go...

Thanks, misterman for pointing this out.

Of course, the question raised was addressing ER access by illegals. While the subsection you're highlighted does make it clear that illegal aliens will not become part of HIEs without verifying their legal immigration status, I think it fair to say that many illegal aliens and poor U.S. citizens will continue to use ERs as walk-in clinics until something is done about that little caveat. Still, mandatory insurance and the language you're provided in health care reform on top of sound immigration reform/enforcement will go a long way to stopping this practise.
 
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Objective Voice said:
While the subsection you're highlighted does make it clear that illegal aliens will not become part of HIEs without verifying their legal immigration status, I think it fair to say that many illegal aliens and poor U.S. citizens will continue to use ERs as walk-in clinics until something is done about that little caveat.
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Yes, I think that's fair to say. I was just responding to Conservative's claim that it wasn't in the law.

(On a better day, I would have added "you lie!" to my response to him.)
 
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Objective Voice said:
And I thank you for correcting him either way. :mrgreen::2wave:
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Don't worry, he is about to forget he ever said it wasn't in the law and say it's too weak instead.
 
Conservative said:
Sounds like I am dealing with another brainwashed kid here.
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This coming from the guy that can't find 1 liberal that said what he thinks all liberals believe...

but of course, I'm the brainwashed one, lol.
 
misterman said:
Wrong again.
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How does any of that prevent illegals from using the ER's and that was my point. Of course an illegal shouldn't be eligible for the exchange. That never was the point but you had to butt in and make an issue out of it.

My error, I forgot how precise I had to be on certain issues when dealing with a liberal
 
Conservative said:
How does any of that prevent illegals from using the ER's and that was my point. Of course an illegal shouldn't be eligible for the exchange. That never was the point but you had to butt in and make an issue out of it.

My error, I forgot how precise I had to be on certain issues when dealing with a liberal
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So you want the feds to pass a law prohibiting private hospitals from allowing access to illegal immigrants?

And you call yourself a conservative? :rofl
 
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roughdraft274 said:
So you want the feds to pass a law prohibiting private hospitals from allowing access to illegal immagrants?

And you call yourself a conservative? :rofl
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He's hitting the wall they all hit. When it comes to ERs, he's either got to do something, or let people die in the street.
 
roughdraft274 said:
So you want the feds to pass a law prohibiting private hospitals from allowing access to illegal immigrants?

And you call yourself a conservative? :rofl
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I want the hospitals to bill the state department for illegal alien treatment and reduce that amount of foreign aid from the country of origin.

Then I want ICE called and the illegals returned to their country of origin.

then I want the govt. to control the borders and stop this bs.
 
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misterman said:
He's hitting the wall they all hit. When it comes to ERs, he's either got to do something, or let people die in the street.
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What is it about the term illegal alien that you do not understand? Try pulling this bs in their country.
 
Conservative said:
I want the hospitals to bill the state department for illegal alien treatment and reduce that amount of foreign aid from the country of origin.
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There's probably not enough money in foreign aid to cover that.

Then I want ICE called and the illegals returned to their country of origin.
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Admirable, but it's probably alot cheaper to just treat them, actually.

then I want the govt. to control the borders and stop this bs.
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Yes - immigration reform, as suggested earlier.
 
Conservative said:
What is it about the term illegal alien that you do not understand? Try pulling this bs in their country.
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So do you advocate letting them die in the street? Yes or no?

No dodges either. Just yes or no.
 
misterman said:
So do you advocate letting them die in the street? Yes or no?

No dodges either. Just yes or no.
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LOL, I gave you the solution to the problem and you responded. No one is going to die in the streets in this country so the answer is NO, regardless of whether or not they are illegal they should be treated, then solve the problem. Illegals should be returned to their country regardless of the cost and our borders protected.
 
Conservative said:
LOL, I gave you the solution to the problem and you responded. No one is going to die in the streets in this country so the answer is NO, regardless of whether or not they are illegal they should be treated, then solve the problem. Illegals should be returned to their country regardless of the cost and our borders protected.
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How much would it surprise you for me to say that I agree with you?

But this should be discussed in immigration reform, not health insurance reform.
 
roughdraft274 said:
How much would it surprise you for me to say that I agree with you?

But this should be discussed in immigration reform, not health insurance reform.
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The problem is many of the so called uninsured are illegal and that makes it a healthcare problem
 
Conservative said:
Apparently so do the facts which you ignore now but acknowledged then. Why are so many insured using the ER's? Why are the MA Universal healthcare expenses rising? What is it in this bill that prevents illegals from using the ER's now.

I pointed out that I live north of Houston, our local budget took a 600,000 hit for illegal use of the ER's last fiscal year so please don't tell me that the costs of healthcare have been fully analized.
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I've ignored no facts. I pointed out and linked information to show you that you're overstating it. You never really responded to those effectively.

And claiming that because illegals are a problem, we can't address legals and help with that problem is silly. Yes, illegals are a problem, but not the only problem. If you have 10 problems, addressing 9 is not invalid because one hasn't been addressed yet. Illegal immigration is a problem, but it is a problem neither party has really shown the will to address. I don't hold much hope any party will address it anytime soon.
 
Boo Radley said:
I've ignored no facts. I pointed out and linked information to show you that you're overstating it. You never really responded to those effectively.

And claiming that because illegals are a problem, we can't address legals and help with that problem is silly. Yes, illegals are a problem, but not the only problem. If you have 10 problems, addressing 9 is not invalid because one hasn't been addressed yet. Illegal immigration is a problem, but it is a problem neither party has really shown the will to address. I don't hold much hope any party will address it anytime soon.
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Tell me why this is such a big issue to you? It doesn't resonate with the majority in this country who are more concerned about job creation. This bill does not create jobs and in fact will cost jobs. Adding expense to business doesn't provide the incentive for business to create jobs, nor does the tax credit which doesn't offset the healthcare costs.
 
Conservative said:
Tell me why this is such a big issue to you? It doesn't resonate with the majority in this country who are more concerned about job creation. This bill does not create jobs and in fact will cost jobs. Adding expense to business doesn't provide the incentive for business to create jobs, nor does the tax credit which doesn't offset the healthcare costs.
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I've told you before, I've worked in medicine. Many doctors agree reform is needed, and more than tort reform. A good number speak to needing a two tiered system in which those who can afford pay for care and their own insurance, and another that the government pays for. Care costs money and will never go back to bartering with chickens.

And it is not likely to cost any jobs, and does attempt to encourage growth in primary care doctors, which would also lead to more jobs. So, you may well be wrong with your claims here.
 
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