• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

RightinNYC said:
So you would make doctors wait until around 40 before they can finally start earning a real salary?

As it stands, doctors already essentially do this, working for $50k/year during their residency when their services would be worth far more on the open market.

Making it an option is one thing, making it mandatory is quite another.
Click to expand...

We can make it an option, sure. But for every year they get medical education paid for by tax dollars they should spend a year working in a public hospital for cheaper than a private doctor would earn. Which is fair, I think, since they won't have to worry about loans and interest. I think that would severely cut down on healthcare costs and increase our population that possess medical training.
 
Leave or want to leave?

Want to leave as in do nothing differently but gripe anyway?

Edit: If you knew you could get away with it, would you speed OR kill someone?

Dear lord, nearly 100% of the population would be a murderer if given the chance!
 
Last edited:
Picaro said:
Indeed. In any case, the vast majority of what they do is referrals, anyway, and nurses can do 95% of what 'primary care' general practitioners do in their offices, anyway.



Yeah right. And where are they going to go?
Click to expand...

Tahiti, Cabo San Lucas, Alcapulco, Hawaii, Paris...
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Sad since the medical profession (doctors, nurses, etc) has been facing shortages for years. This will only make it worse, my mother who is a doctor (pediatrician) told me yesterday that none of the doctors in the Hospital are happy about this bill.
Click to expand...

I know alot of doctors. I don't know of a single one who thinks this bill will be a good thing. I also know about 10 of them who have closed their private practices over the past 10 or so years because malpractice insurance and costs of doing business have gone up so much that they can't make a decent wage.
 
Erod said:
I could post that Post Toasties are better than Lucky Charms, and you'd figure out a way to blame Bush for the carbohydrate content in both as they relate to the War in Iraq.

THAT is what is pathetic. And it makes anything you say thereafter utterly meaningless and irrelevant.
Click to expand...

How dare you say that, you POS, especially on St. Patrick's Day. Anybody with half a real Irish brain knows that Lucky Charms is better than Post Toasties. :mrgreen:
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
You are 19 and you are a pre-med student. Are you aware how many pre-med students there are? Seriously, kid. You might not even be accepted into med school yet you are calling yourself a "pre-med" student. My best advice is to study something that you like without the plan on becoming a doctor.
Because the chances of you becoming a doctor even with a good GPA are not likely. I have known many associates who studied pre-med and didn't get in, and they were smart too. Perfect GPA, good score on their exams. Still nothing. Of the 13 I know. Four of them got into med school, if you want more advice, I suggesst you study biology & chemistry as a double major. And get a good GPA. Remember the Medical Association of America/American Doctor Association do not want for too many people to study medicine. It's a racket really.
But you won't believe me anyways.
Click to expand...

I declared my major as molecular biology. Is it wrong for me to have medical ambitions and to take courses that are geared for pre medical school students? I don't have any plan set in stone yet, but I do know that I want to work somewhere in the medical field. I plan on trying to get into med school, just because it's hard doesn't mean I shouldn't try. GPA is important, but most typically look at the MCAT or PCAT. Right now my GPA is good, so if I score well on those exams I should be able to get in. I do believe you and I know it's incredibly hard and what you are saying is realistic, but I still plan on going to med school. If not, I guess I can use my molecular biology degree in research somewhere.
 
46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.
Click to expand...

I recently heard from a couple doctors that primary care physicians are lucky to earn around 100k a year. This was the result of me asking the doctor who delivered my son if he was enjoying his house on the 13th hole. He started talking about how expensive it was to furnish it and I joked that that's why he made the big bucks. He looked at me funny and said, no, I'm pretty sure it's you who makes the big bucks. For a short history on me, I dropped out of high school, spent two years homeless, got off the streets and learned electronics in the Navy. It took me 7 years from the time I joined to figure out how to make over $100k/yr, which is slightly misleading because I made close to that while stationed in London for 3 years. Oh yeah, and I have no student loans to pay...

So while those jobs may not go away, they are going to have problems finding people to fill them. They will either have to reduce the standard of doctors, which is currently very high, or import them like England does.

Sure, you will always have those that do what they believe in, but it doesn't make up the entire motive of many. Keep taking away money, and see what happens to job interests. I love how careless the thinking is these days...
 
samsmart said:
I don't think we should raise doctor salaries. Instead, I think we should make all education for medical practitioners paid for by the public and medical students and doctors have to work in public hospitals for a number of years. That way, they don't have to go so deep into debt to practice medicine.
Click to expand...

I don't know about other states, but in Texas you can go through med school free, yes, free, if you're qualified.
 
Crunch said:
Tahiti, Cabo San Lucas, Alcapulco, Hawaii, Paris...
Click to expand...

Hahaha. The last one made me laugh. Read about the French medical system please.
 
lizzie said:
I know alot of doctors. I don't know of a single one who thinks this bill will be a good thing. I also know about 10 of them who have closed their private practices over the past 10 or so years because malpractice insurance and costs of doing business have gone up so much that they can't make a decent wage.
Click to expand...

So, they're leaving anyway, under 'privatized' care. The gravy train is over for some of them, because they can't just just send off some list of outrageous charges that go unquestioned any more.
 
RightinNYC said:
Let me get this straight - your argument is that doctors didn't use to get rich back when all of their patients came from private insurance, but now are getting rich thanks to an infusion of barely (if at all) profitable clients?
Click to expand...

I never said a thing about private insurance. Before Medicare and Medicaid came along, in the 1960's or so, doctors mostly got paid in cash or kind, and even today, if a doctor or a dentist knows you have no insurance and can only pay cash, or like me, pays cash anyway, their bill magically becomes a lot smaller. Not many people had 'private insurance', except for management and some workers under a union contract.

Interesting theory. Care to explain the many, many doctors who refuse to take Medicare/aid at all? Under your theory they should be dead broke, yet in reality, they're the richest of all.
Click to expand...

Not that many are refusing; some are just whining because Medicare no longer just automatically pays them whatever they want, and if you think many were not padding their bills, I doubt you will ever get anything straight, especially if you think Medicare has been, or is now, 'barely profitable'.
 
Hatuey said:
Hahaha. The last one made me laugh. Read about the French medical system please.
Click to expand...

Being illiterate, he also obviously doesn't know those other places already have all the docs they need.
 
Hatuey said:
Hahaha. The last one made me laugh. Read about the French medical system please.
Click to expand...

UHHHHHHHH........ I'm thinking these doctors might not give a **** about the French Medical system in their retirement, but.......




























whatever.
 
Picaro said:
Being illiterate, he also obviously doesn't know those other places already have all the docs they need.
Click to expand...

You guys are a real (stupid) hoot....

Notice they were all nice places to retire or vacation?

**** no........ you guys have way too much invested in your partisan hackery to recognize a joke if it came up and bit you on the balls.

Carry on....... we are all laughing our asses off at you.
 
Last edited:
Picaro said:
Being illiterate, he also obviously doesn't know those other places already have all the docs they need.
Click to expand...

BTW. not only do unsolicited personal attacks make you look more the fool than you normally do, they are also reportable and could get you an infraction, thread ban, or just plain banned. :2wave:
 
Last edited:
Another dumbass troll. How 'Special'.

Let's do a survey.

How many people know that 'private' health insurance is a monopoly in most states, many with only one underwriter for the entire state, and few states have more than two? Sound 'competitive' to anyone?

How many people here know that most people covered 'private' insurance' have no real choice to chose any doctor they want? The vast majority are just given a list of 'pre-approved' doctors, and going outside of the 'system' means paying out of your own pocket anyway?

How people know that a large percentage of 'private' employer provided insurance is essentially worthless, after the deductibles, etc., and if you come down with a major illness, like cancer, you'll be dropped as soon as you miss a payment, or sooner if you forget to mention you had acne once when you were 12, or some other 'falsification' on your medical history, anything they can use and hope you die before it gets to court, if ever?
 
Crunch said:
BTW. not only do unsolicited personal attacks make you look more the fool than you normally do, they are also reportable and could get you an infraction, thread ban, or just plain banned. :2wave:
Click to expand...

You mean like your baiting? Go ahead, report mine. You're just a troll, anyway. I saved your post, so going back and editing won't do a thing for you.
 
Last edited:
Picaro said:
You mean like your baiting? Go ahead, report mine. You're just a troll, anyway.
Click to expand...

Really?

A Troll?

Have you read much of what I post?

And what baiting did I do to provoke your attack?

Is it possible that because I claim to be conservative you just automatically have to call me illiterate?

Like I said… Partisan hackery.
 
Crunch said:
Really?

A Troll?
Click to expand...

Yes, obviously ...

Have you read much of what I post?
Click to expand...

I've read all I need to, which are the ones directed at me and another poster. Did you win a Blue ribbon in the 'Retarded Infant' category once or something?

And what baiting did I do to provoke your attack?
Click to expand...

See my last sentence.

Is it possible that because I claim to be conservative you just automatically have to call me illiterate?
Click to expand...

I didn't call you an illiterate, I called you another dumbass troll, but obviously I should have, since it fits; you have a reading disability, likely self-inflicted and a great example of how social promotion is ruining the education system.

Like I said… Partisan hackery.
Click to expand...

Then go away.
 
Last edited:
Picaro said:
Yes, obviously ...



I've read all I need to, which are the ones directed at me and another poster. Did you win a Blue ribbon in the 'Retarded Infant' category once or something?



See my last sentence.



I didn't call you an illiterate, I called you another dumbass troll, but obviously I should have, since it fits; you have a reading disability, likely self-inflicted and a great example of how social promotion is ruining the education system.



Then go away.
Click to expand...

Hey Tucker....... see why I wanted to keep the points down?

This guy is a perfect candidate for me to call an ass hole....... but I won't.
 
Picaro said:
The gravy train is over for some of them, because they can't just just send off some list of outrageous charges that go unquestioned any more.
Click to expand...

That never has been the case. Insurance companies have always reimbursed at what were considered "reasonable and necessary" charges. Medicare is typically a better reimbursement source than private insurance companies. Frivolous lawsuits have caused the cost of malpractice insurance to soar, and the costs of running a physician office business has increased. The vast majority of doctors I know and associate with are very honest and ethical businessmen, and are not "send[ing] off some list of outrageious charges".

I will be interested to see how all the whiners here will react when they can't find a decent doctor to take care of themselves and their families. Doctors are highly trained, highly skilled, and their services should not be taken for granted, and besides that, they give a **** about humanity and they put up with alot of crap that other people wouldn't.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease with the personal attacks or there will be more infractions and thread bans handed out.
 
This topic has been discussed in the past, so it can hardly be breaking news.

I still maintain doctors are splitting on partisan lines on this one, because its a partisan issue, the 50-50 divergence resembles typical partisan splits, and doctors as a industry have mixed political opinions.

Furthermore, I don't think half of doctors can even quit their job if they want to maintain anything like the standard of living they've come to enjoy or pay off the massive debts from medical school. Maybe some of the older ones could retire early.

Besides that, conjuring up a new generation of doctors would be relatively easy with the right legislation. Hospital competition for customers is pretty subdued; the industry finds it easy to cooperate to achieve mutually beneficial economical outcomes. Organizations in the industry have several measures for limiting the number of applicants accepted to med school, (at least in part) to make their services more valuable.
 
Last edited:
samsmart said:
We can make it an option, sure. But for every year they get medical education paid for by tax dollars they should spend a year working in a public hospital for cheaper than a private doctor would earn. Which is fair, I think, since they won't have to worry about loans and interest. I think that would severely cut down on healthcare costs and increase our population that possess medical training.
Click to expand...

How exactly would it save money? If the program covers $50k of a student's tuition but requires them to work for one year at $150k less than they would otherwise earn, no student would take it. If the program covers $50k of a student's tuition but requires them to work for one year at $50k less than they would otherwise earn, the student might take it, but it wouldn't save any money.

Picaro said:
I don't know about other states, but in Texas you can go through med school free, yes, free, if you're qualified.
Click to expand...

Got a link to that?

Picaro said:
I never said a thing about private insurance. Before Medicare and Medicaid came along, in the 1960's or so, doctors mostly got paid in cash or kind, and even today, if a doctor or a dentist knows you have no insurance and can only pay cash, or like me, pays cash anyway, their bill magically becomes a lot smaller. Not many people had 'private insurance', except for management and some workers under a union contract.
Click to expand...

All of which is astonishingly unrelated to your claim that doctors were struggling back then as compared to now.

Not that many are refusing; some are just whining because Medicare no longer just automatically pays them whatever they want,
Click to expand...

Then you must not know many doctors. I know plenty across all fields who are refusing Medicare/aid patients or at least placing limits on how many they take. But hey, don't take my word for it:

As Medicaid Payments Shrink, Patients Are Abandoned - NYTimes.com

and if you think many were not padding their bills, I doubt you will ever get anything straight,
Click to expand...

Ah, so Doctors were only making a profit because they're corrupt. Interesting.

especially if you think Medicare has been, or is now, 'barely profitable'.
Click to expand...

Not sure that you understood what I was saying.

Picaro said:
Let's do a survey.

How many people know that 'private' health insurance is a monopoly in most states, many with only one underwriter for the entire state, and few states have more than two?
Click to expand...

Hopefully not many people "know" that, because that's a bold-faced lie.

http://hcfan.3cdn.net/648e0302462c448dd3_6om6b909w.pdf

-There is not a single state in this country that only has one underwriter. -There is not a single state in this country that only has two underwriters.
-In 40 of the 50 states, the top two underwriters combined cover less than 80% of the market.
-In 18 states, the largest underwriter doesn't even have a bare majority.

How many people here know that most people covered 'private' insurance' have no real choice to chose any doctor they want? The vast majority are just given a list of 'pre-approved' doctors, and going outside of the 'system' means paying out of your own pocket anyway?
Click to expand...

No one with a functioning brain doesn't know that. Of course, to those of us who are looking at this rationally rather than as a rant, such a factoid is useless without actually considering what that really means in practice. When I entered my zip code into my insurer's website to find a general practitioner near me, the system maxed out, only showing the first 500 options within 25 miles. How ever will I survive with such a paucity of choices?

How people know that a large percentage of 'private' employer provided insurance is essentially worthless, after the deductibles, etc., and if you come down with a major illness, like cancer, you'll be dropped as soon as you miss a payment, or sooner if you forget to mention you had acne once when you were 12, or some other 'falsification' on your medical history, anything they can use and hope you die before it gets to court, if ever?
Click to expand...

If you don't think it's worthwhile, don't get insurance. Nobody is forcing you to. Well, except for Obama.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom