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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Don't you mean a fine, you can't be taxed for not doing something, only punished.
    Doesn't matter. Either way, the point is you do pay. Right?

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't matter. Either way, the point is you do pay. Right?
    It very much does matter.

    One is allowed by the constitution (taxes) and one is not ( punishing without due process).

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Lawsuits not withstanding, the fact is the states can opt out. Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has a message for all the attorneys general and Republican lawmakers who are threatening lawsuits and claiming that an individual mandate for insurance coverage is unconstitutional: You don't have to abide by it -- just set up your own plan.

    The Oregon Democrat isn't inviting opponents to defy the newly-enacted health care law. Instead, he's pointing out a provision in the bill that makes moot the argument over the legality of the individual mandate.

    Speaking to the Huffington Post on Tuesday, Wyden discussed -- for one of the first times in public -- legislative language he authored which "allows a state to go out and do its own bill, including having no individual mandate."

    It's called the "Empowering States to be Innovative" amendment. And it would, quite literally, give states the right to set up their own health care system -- with or without an individual mandate or, for that matter, with or without a public option -- provided that, as Wyden puts it, "they can meet the coverage requirements of the bill."

    Wyden: Health Care Lawsuits Moot, States Can Opt Out Of Mandate

    Actually, as far as letting people be irresponsible, we've all been doing that for a long time. And you continue to argue for letting them continue to be irresponsible and for us to pay for them. That is what you are arguing.
    I have searched the texts of both the health care bill and the reconciliation bill and can not find where this amendment is included.

    It was proposed, as was the buying insurance across state lines amendment, but I don't see where it was adopted. Do you have any information on this?

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Let them quit. There's an Indian and Chinese doctor waiting in line to take their place.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    I have searched the texts of both the health care bill and the reconciliation bill and can not find where this amendment is included.

    It was proposed, as was the buying insurance across state lines amendment, but I don't see where it was adopted. Do you have any information on this?
    Only what I posted earlier:

    The provision actually was taken directly from Wyden's Healthy Americans Act -- the far-more innovative health care reform legislation he authored with Republican co-sponsors. In that bill there is also an individual mandate that would require Americans to purchase insurance coverage. But states that found the mandate objectionable could simply create and insert a new system in its place. All it would require is applying for a waiver from the Department of Health and Human Services, which has a 180-day window to confirm or deny such a waiver.

    That language has been inserted, almost verbatim, into the bill Obama signed into law on Tuesday. And if there is any confusion about how much leverage it gives states to drop the mandate, Wyden cleared it up months ago during a hearing at the Senate Finance Committee.

    Wyden: Health Care Lawsuits Moot, States Can Opt Out Of Mandate

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    It very much does matter.

    One is allowed by the constitution (taxes) and one is not ( punishing without due process).
    Missed this earlier. I don't think you're correct. But we'll see, won't we?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    The law passes, and I haven't seen any doctors quit because of this.

    I don't see why people are upset, especially conservatives.

    Isn't it a good thing to have people off medicare and on private insurance?

    Isn't it a good thing to have companies extend coverage to people with pre-existing conditions?

    Isn't it good for the private sector to have more customers and also good for the government who no longer has to pick up the tab for people without insurance?
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    It very much does matter.

    One is allowed by the constitution (taxes) and one is not ( punishing without due process).

    It's not a fine, it's incorporated into the tax code.
    Require U.S. citizens and legal residents to have qualifying health coverage. Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of
    $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased in according to the following schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014, 2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016.

    http://www.kff.org/healthreform/uplo...bill_final.pdf
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    It's not a fine, it's incorporated into the tax code.

    Penalty is a comprehensive term with many different meanings. It entails the concept of punishment—either corporal or pecuniary, civil or criminal—although its meaning is usually confined to pecuniary punishment. The law can impose a penalty, and a private contract can provide for its assessment. Pecuniary penalties are frequently negotiated in construction contracts, in the event that the project is not completed by the specified date.

    West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    penalty n. 1) in criminal law, a money fine or forfeiture of property ordered by the judge after conviction for a crime. 2) an amount agreed in advance if payment or performance is not made on time, such as a "late payment" on a promissory note or lease, or a financial penalty for each day a building contractor fails to complete a job.

    Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.



    You can say its not a fine, that doesn't change the meaning of what they passed.

    A punishment, without due process. That is why it is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla
    Penalty is a comprehensive term with many different meanings. It entails the concept of punishment—either corporal or pecuniary, civil or criminal—although its meaning is usually confined to pecuniary punishment. The law can impose a penalty, and a private contract can provide for its assessment. Pecuniary penalties are frequently negotiated in construction contracts, in the event that the project is not completed by the specified date.

    West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    penalty n. 1) in criminal law, a money fine or forfeiture of property ordered by the judge after conviction for a crime. 2) an amount agreed in advance if payment or performance is not made on time, such as a "late payment" on a promissory note or lease, or a financial penalty for each day a building contractor fails to complete a job.

    Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

    Never said it wasn't a penalty. You don't have to be convicted to incur a penalty.

    Main Entry: pen·al·ty
    1 : the suffering in person, rights, or property that is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime or public offense


    Quote Originally Posted by cholla
    You can say its not a fine, that doesn't change the meaning of what they passed.

    A punishment, without due process. That is why it is unconstitutional.


    You can call it a fine all day long, but they wrote it, along with other provisions of the bill, into the tax code for a reason.

    Notwithstanding your assertion, be sure to let me know when it's actually proven to be unconstitutional.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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