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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

  1. #621
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Lawsuits not withstanding, the fact is the states can opt out.

    Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has a message for all the attorneys general and Republican lawmakers who are threatening lawsuits and claiming that an individual mandate for insurance coverage is unconstitutional: You don't have to abide by it -- just set up your own plan.

    The Oregon Democrat isn't inviting opponents to defy the newly-enacted health care law. Instead, he's pointing out a provision in the bill that makes moot the argument over the legality of the individual mandate.

    Speaking to the Huffington Post on Tuesday, Wyden discussed -- for one of the first times in public -- legislative language he authored which "allows a state to go out and do its own bill, including having no individual mandate."

    It's called the "Empowering States to be Innovative" amendment. And it would, quite literally, give states the right to set up their own health care system -- with or without an individual mandate or, for that matter, with or without a public option -- provided that, as Wyden puts it, "they can meet the coverage requirements of the bill."

    Wyden: Health Care Lawsuits Moot, States Can Opt Out Of Mandate

    Actually, as far as letting people be irresponsible, we've all been doing that for a long time. And you continue to argue for letting them continue to be irresponsible and for us to pay for them. That is what you are arguing.
    States do not pay FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, people do. People are stuck paying for this POS but apparently you have no concept that you are paying for your own insurance and that for someone else. Why not bypass the middle man, the FEDS, and go directly to those in your community and do the same thing?

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    States do not pay FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, people do. People are stuck paying for this POS but apparently you have no concept that you are paying for your own insurance and that for someone else. Why not bypass the middle man, the FEDS, and go directly to those in your community and do the same thing?
    The lawsuit is over mandating insurance. Buying your own insurance is not a tax. Stay focused.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The lawsuit is over mandating insurance. Buying your own insurance is not a tax. Stay focused.
    That is your opinion and I am done with you on this issue. You got your healthcare bill and if history is an example you will ignore the failure. Keep buying what you are told by the arrogant liberals in charge. It makes you feel good but never does what it was intended to do. Costs will not go down, quality will not improve, access will be reduced but you got your feel good legislation. history is on my side and this is one slippery slope as Obama continues to transform America into that wonderful liberal model that hasn't worked anywhere else in the world.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion and I am done with you on this issue. You got your healthcare bill and if history is an example you will ignore the failure. Keep buying what you are told by the arrogant liberals in charge. It makes you feel good but never does what it was intended to do. Costs will not go down, quality will not improve, access will be reduced but you got your feel good legislation. history is on my side and this is one slippery slope as Obama continues to transform America into that wonderful liberal model that hasn't worked anywhere else in the world.

    When shown wrong, it is best to leave. So I understand your leaving.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion and I am done with you on this issue. You got your healthcare bill and if history is an example you will ignore the failure. Keep buying what you are told by the arrogant liberals in charge. It makes you feel good but never does what it was intended to do. Costs will not go down, quality will not improve, access will be reduced but you got your feel good legislation. history is on my side and this is one slippery slope as Obama continues to transform America into that wonderful liberal model that hasn't worked anywhere else in the world.
    The arrogance, and the name calling, is coming from you, and many other conservatives. You do realize that much of this bill was originated in the past by republicans, right? The DEMS are not the only ones promising health care reform, they are just the ones who are trying to deliver.
    Certainly the status quo is not cutting it. And it doesn't matter whether we pay in taxes or inflated costs to those who can and will pay, the fact is that those who are paying are supporting those who do not.
    Something has to be done, and I don't see the party of NO offering much...
    BTW, I am a republican, always voting that way except for a few local positions, like school board members....
    I can almost predict what you will call me, a RINO, right?
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The arrogance, and the name calling, is coming from you, and many other conservatives. You do realize that much of this bill was originated in the past by republicans, right? The DEMS are not the only ones promising health care reform, they are just the ones who are trying to deliver.
    Certainly the status quo is not cutting it. And it doesn't matter whether we pay in taxes or inflated costs to those who can and will pay, the fact is that those who are paying are supporting those who do not.
    Something has to be done, and I don't see the party of NO offering much...
    BTW, I am a republican, always voting that way except for a few local positions, like school board members....
    I can almost predict what you will call me, a RINO, right?
    It makes no difference where this bill came from, it is a POS that does nothing to lower healthcare costs, improve quality, and access. Dems are appealing again to the hearts of individuals who want to believe the rhetoric. Facts however prove that faith misguided.

    I am not a Republican, I am a Conservative however and used to be a Conservative Democrat until the party left me. I haven't voted for a Democrat since 1976 and based upon what I am seeing now won't be voting for another on the national stage for a long time to come.

    This isn't a Republican or Democrat Issue, it is a logic and common sense issue. Everytime the govt. gets involved in social engineering it costs more than intended, does less than intended and does nothing but increase the size and scope of the govt. I see no logical reason to force healthcare on people who can afford it but CHOOSE not to buy it. Boo's entire argument is about ER usage and as I have posted here and on other threads the insured are using the ER's and the insured are getting the bills paid.

    If someone doesn't have insurance but can afford to pay then go after them regardless of the cost. Don't burden the taxpayer because a hospital cannot collect from a deadbeat.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It makes no difference where this bill came from, it is a POS that does nothing to lower healthcare costs, improve quality, and access. Dems are appealing again to the hearts of individuals who want to believe the rhetoric. Facts however prove that faith misguided.

    I am not a Republican, I am a Conservative however and used to be a Conservative Democrat until the party left me. I haven't voted for a Democrat since 1976 and based upon what I am seeing now won't be voting for another on the national stage for a long time to come.

    This isn't a Republican or Democrat Issue, it is a logic and common sense issue. Everytime the govt. gets involved in social engineering it costs more than intended, does less than intended and does nothing but increase the size and scope of the govt. I see no logical reason to force healthcare on people who can afford it but CHOOSE not to buy it. Boo's entire argument is about ER usage and as I have posted here and on other threads the insured are using the ER's and the insured are getting the bills paid.

    If someone doesn't have insurance but can afford to pay then go after them regardless of the cost. Don't burden the taxpayer because a hospital cannot collect from a deadbeat.
    I can agree that all attempts of social engineering are doomed.....especially if run by the govt. But what are the alternatives? We don't have debtors prisons to put all the dead beats, and we are not likely to let any of them die. Like I have said many times, I know too many who CAN afford insurance but would rather have an extra cell phone, Cable TV, more car than they need, etc.....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I can agree that all attempts of social engineering are doomed.....especially if run by the govt. But what are the alternatives? We don't have debtors prisons to put all the dead beats, and we are not likely to let any of them die. Like I have said many times, I know too many who CAN afford insurance but would rather have an extra cell phone, Cable TV, more car than they need, etc.....
    The product of liberalism where there are no consequences for poor choices. I really don't know how much of the problem rests with people who can afford insurance but refuse to buy it then skip out on payments when services are provided. No one can answer that question.

    I do know however that the insured are using the ER's in increasing numbers because of a doctor shortage and those bills are getting paid by the insurance companies. I also know that illegals are using the ER's for medical care and to me that is where the problem lies. My county alone spent 600,000 last year on illegal healthcare that my taxdollars funded.

    Boo is overreacting based upon feelings without actual facts. Outdated surveys are used to support his point of view but none actually address individual finances where people do buy what they want instead of what they need.

    My point always has been that no politician will ever address the true costs of healthcare without identifying all those costs. There doesn't seem to be any interest in doing that but they have no problem demonizing profits but never their own regulations which affect those profits. in addition there is appetite by Democrats to address tort reform. Granted that may be a low cost but it is a cost and there is no way you can reduce costs without addressing ALL costs.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I told you why. They have no choice. It is done through taxes. No one to vote out for doing it. Hospitals merely hike their charges to cover them. Insurance companies hike their premiums to cover those, and you and your employer cover the cost. This rises prices everywhere, and even hinders business from competing with other countries that have a more universal health care system.

    This is not hard to follow.

    And I know no one will answer that question. As i say, there's a disconnect. They think if they are not taxed, they aren't paying for it. That is very false.
    How is it "done through taxes"


    And until we answer my question, there is nothing outside of mandating insurance and seeking to cover everyone that can be done.[/QUOTE]

    With all the posts here, I must have missed your question.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    States can opt out, but must provide another plan to handle it. Individuals can opt out, but must pay in some other form, like taxes. So, there is a system in place to help address the problem.

    And health care has not been personal for decades. Calling it a personal responsibility, but allowing them to not be responsible, and having us pay for their irresponsibility makes no sense.

    An no, my suggestion is that there is a more effective method. While the current bill is only marginally better, it is a start. Sooner or later, more will have to be done.
    Don't you mean a fine, you can't be taxed for not doing something, only punished.

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