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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Are you trying to imply that after "reform" they will be paying for themselves? Because I haven't seen where the taxpayers in this country will not be still paying for others health care.
    Some will be paying for their own, yes. That's the whole mandate to buy insurance. But even those we pay for, in the long run it could be less (don't know if it will yet) as it will be more controlled and less ad hock. Do you know anyone monitoring the charges hospitals charge to make up for those who don't pay? Any possibility they charge more than required?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    you should also consider there are those that would fall within the "underinsured" definition, who do not utilized their insurance, of which the somewhat ambiguous definiton has led to their grouping with those who may be overusing their insurance..

    there are some people that just dont go to the doc, unless they need an appendage sewn back on. these are persons who normally wouldnt choose to be on a medical plan unless strongly impressed upon by an employer..
    which ironically on a small scale, is similar to asking someone else to help pay for anothers healthcare..(at least its still voluntary, rather than being required..)

    there are those who potentially overuse their insurance for every sniffle/ache/moan imaginable. which they can certainly do, after all they paid for it... so i really havent a complaint about this, with the exception of those who just do not take care of themselves and eventually create costs that others on the same plan must also fund.(you know the ones... smoking 2packs a day at 50+ yrs of age and have a BMI of 60+..)

    my vaguely presented point is that statistics are usually manipulated to fit the view of the statustician and often "broad brushed" to include those that effectively are not in actuality adding to the totals being presented.(though i havent the foggiest clue how to separate the "fluff" from the "stuff")
    Statistics don't speak for themselves, that's true. We do have to make some judgment as to what they mean, which can lead to some bending. All the same, the problem is real. People come in, get treated, and can't readily pay. The hospital has to recoup the costs, and in turn charge us all more. This effects not only what we pay at the hospital, but our premiums.

    And yes, another problem, and I stated earlier there is more than one, is that we've been a system that is designed mostly to be used after something is wrong. This is ineffective. The 2 pack a day smoker does run up costs for everyone. As do other less healthy life styles. As long as we think in terms of medicine being something we do after we're sick, or that requires we spend and have things done that we think needs to be done, but doesn't, we will also contribute to higher costs.

    But this requires a change in mind set. That will take time.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Some will be paying for their own, yes. That's the whole mandate to buy insurance. But even those we pay for, in the long run it could be less (don't know if it will yet) as it will be more controlled and less ad hock. Do you know anyone monitoring the charges hospitals charge to make up for those who don't pay? Any possibility they charge more than required?
    I don't personally know anyone monitering these things, although from a strictly bussines point of view, these costs will not go down even if the rainbow fantasy world view of healthcare reform does make more people pay for insurance.
    If you are selling a widgit for 1 dollar and it costs you 97 cents to do that, and all of a sudden a long line of widgit buyers formed in front of your store, are you going to drop the price because you have more customers and you think that at some point you have made enough money.

    Of course not, its not in our natures to do that.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    I don't personally know anyone monitering these things, although from a strictly bussines point of view, these costs will not go down even if the rainbow fantasy world view of healthcare reform does make more people pay for insurance.
    If you are selling a widgit for 1 dollar and it costs you 97 cents to do that, and all of a sudden a long line of widgit buyers formed in front of your store, are you going to drop the price because you have more customers and you think that at some point you have made enough money.

    Of course not, its not in our natures to do that.
    Yes, I have often said I can't say for certain it will go down for exactly that reason, but there's removing the reason it went up in the first place should at a minimum slow the growth. Remember, costs have been growing largely out of control for sometime:


    The rising cost of health care is much in the news. Health costs continue to grow faster than national income and, despite research indicating that we the get good value for the increased spending, some policy makers and health analysts question whether governments and private employers can continue to finance the level of care that they do today. This paper illustrates the magnitude of savings that would be needed in order to bring health care cost growth closer to the rate of national income growth, and suggests that none of the usual policy options raised in health policy or political circles is likely to significantly close the gap between the growth of health spending and income.1

    The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) recently released projected health care expenditures for the 2005 through 2015 period.2 Total health expenditures are estimated to be $2.16 trillion in 2006, and are projected to rise to over $4 trillion in 2015. Per person health spending is $7,110 this year and is projected to increase to $12,320 by the end of the period.

    Health spending continues to increase much faster than the overall economy (i.e., gross domestic product, or GDP). Since 1970, health care spending has grown at an average annual rate of 9.9%, or about 2.5 percentage points faster than GDP.3 In recent decades, the growth rates for health spending and GDP have slowed, but health spending growth remains consistently above GDP growth (Figure 1). As a share of the economy, health care has risen from 7.2% of GDP in 1965 to over 16% of GDP today, and it is projected to be 20% of GDP just 10 years from now.4



    Figure 1

    Snapshots: Comparing Projected Growth in Health Care Expenditures and the Economy - Kaiser Family Foundation
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 05-20-10 at 11:49 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla
    If you are selling a widgit for 1 dollar and it costs you 97 cents to do that, and all of a sudden a long line of widgit buyers formed in front of your store...
    In selling widgets if you don't have a dollar, you don't get a widget. But in health care everyone that comes along gets the product. If health care actually cost 50 cents to provide, but some are paying nothing, you have to charge others $1.00+ to break even or make a profit. If everybody pays 50+ cents, everybody shares in actual costs.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    I am in favor of making people have insurance, mostly because I know so many people who CAN afford it, but refuse to buy it.

    Can any poster here explain why we should allow that?

    We don't allow car owners to drive uninsured, do we?
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I am in favor of making people have insurance, mostly because I know so many people who CAN afford it, but refuse to buy it.

    Can any poster here explain why we should allow that?

    We don't allow car owners to drive uninsured, do we?
    Who forced you to buy health insurance? You don't see a problem here with people being forced by the govt. to buy something that is a personal responsibility? Where does it stop

    We force people to buy car insurance to protect us from someone else, not to protect us from ourself. you cannot equate a personal responsibility issue with car insurance.

    Unlike with most liberals I understand the consequences of poor choices. If I didn't have insurance and had to go to the ER i would expect to be billed for those services and if I couldn't pay i would find a way to pay or would expect the hospital to go after my assets.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who forced you to buy health insurance? You don't see a problem here with people being forced by the govt. to buy something that is a personal responsibility? Where does it stop

    We force people to buy car insurance to protect us from someone else, not to protect us from ourself. you cannot equate a personal responsibility issue with car insurance.

    Unlike with most liberals I understand the consequences of poor choices. If I didn't have insurance and had to go to the ER i would expect to be billed for those services and if I couldn't pay i would find a way to pay or would expect the hospital to go after my assets.
    As we pay for those who don't have insurance, we protecting ourselves by having them insured.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who forced you to buy health insurance? You don't see a problem here with people being forced by the govt. to buy something that is a personal responsibility? Where does it stop

    We force people to buy car insurance to protect us from someone else, not to protect us from ourself. you cannot equate a personal responsibility issue with car insurance.

    Unlike with most liberals I understand the consequences of poor choices. If I didn't have insurance and had to go to the ER i would expect to be billed for those services and if I couldn't pay i would find a way to pay or would expect the hospital to go after my assets.
    What kind of conservative allows people to live off the income of others?
    Those who don't pay for their own medical care are costing the rest of us money.
    Car insurance protects us from ourselves as well, so we don't have to pay the full ride when we cause an accident.
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As we pay for those who don't have insurance, we protecting ourselves by having them insured.
    My question is why are taxpayers paying for the insurance of people who can afford insurance but choose not to purchase it?

    Are there ever any consequences for poor choices in your world? You simply don't get it, millions of insured are getting treatment in the ER's now and those bills are being paid by insurance. The cost to the taxpayer is much less than you want to admit.

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