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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Not sure it isn't a good thing as it depends on where the money goes. If it goes to R&D, employing people, improving infrastructure then it is a good thing. Profits aren't bad nor should they be demonized.

    Tell me where those high costs go? You are the one posting articles claiming that healthcare costs are 17% of GDP but cannot explain how those costs were registered nor why that is a bad thing since most here don't understand GDP.
    Where do they go? Good question. I'm really not sure, but it would appear that a lot of the money goes to advertising, to CYA tests ordered by doctors, to visits to the emergency room that could have been paid for much more cheaply in a doctor's office.

    Some of it goes to patient treatment, some to R and D, of course, but I'd be willing to bet that more goes to advertising than to R and D.
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    underinsured:

    Person not adequately covered for a particular loss or damage, or who fails to meet a coinsurance requirement.

    underinsured definition

    This study estimates that nearly sixteen million people ages 19–64 were underinsured in 2003. Underinsured adults were more likely to forgo needed care than those with more adequate coverage and had rates of financial stress similar to those of the uninsured. Including adults uninsured during the year, 35 percent (sixty-one million) were under- or uninsured. These findings highlight the need for policy attention to insurance design that considers the adequacy of coverage.

    (snip)

    Using respondents’ estimates of out-of-pocket medical care expenses, plan deductibles, and income, we classified them as underinsured if they were insured all year but reported at least one of three indicators: (1) Medical expenses amounted to 10 percent of income or more; (2) among low-income adults (below 200 percent of the federal poverty level), medical expenses amounted to at least 5 percent of income; and (3) health plan deductibles equaled or exceeded 5 percent of income.17

    Insured But Not Protected: How Many Adults Are Underinsured? -- Schoen et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.289 -- Health Affairs

    A reasonable definition is not that hard to come by.

    you should also consider there are those that would fall within the "underinsured" definition, who do not utilized their insurance, of which the somewhat ambiguous definiton has led to their grouping with those who may be overusing their insurance..

    there are some people that just dont go to the doc, unless they need an appendage sewn back on. these are persons who normally wouldnt choose to be on a medical plan unless strongly impressed upon by an employer..
    which ironically on a small scale, is similar to asking someone else to help pay for anothers healthcare..(at least its still voluntary, rather than being required..)

    there are those who potentially overuse their insurance for every sniffle/ache/moan imaginable. which they can certainly do, after all they paid for it... so i really havent a complaint about this, with the exception of those who just do not take care of themselves and eventually create costs that others on the same plan must also fund.(you know the ones... smoking 2packs a day at 50+ yrs of age and have a BMI of 60+..)

    my vaguely presented point is that statistics are usually manipulated to fit the view of the statustician and often "broad brushed" to include those that effectively are not in actuality adding to the totals being presented.(though i havent the foggiest clue how to separate the "fluff" from the "stuff")

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Where do they go? Good question. I'm really not sure, but it would appear that a lot of the money goes to advertising, to CYA tests ordered by doctors, to visits to the emergency room that could have been paid for much more cheaply in a doctor's office.

    Some of it goes to patient treatment, some to R and D, of course, but I'd be willing to bet that more goes to advertising than to R and D.
    the problem is there is a doctor shortage now as I posted and is worse in MA where there is universal healthcare and full coverage for all citizens. That isn't going to get any better, and then there are doctors and hospitals all over the nation dropping Medicare. Add millions to the insured roles and how does the system handle that increase in demand? It doesn't, costs are going up and access is going to drop.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    WhyteRash;1058761032]just a question to the both of you.. conservative and boo.. (since you two are the most active with basically polar opposite views)

    do you believe any of the numbers provided by either side of the spectrum are real? (honest answers please)
    I don't believe there are 46 million uninsured people in this country due to an inability to pay. I don't believe that the cost to the taxpayers is as high as Boo wants to make one believe for use of the ER's as most using the ER's actually have insurance. I don't believe the govt. number as to the cost of the healthcare bill nor do I believe it will improve quality, quantity, and lower costs.

    What numbers have I given you that you want me to defend?

    i for one most certainly take any politically motivated statistic(or for that matter any "statistic" relative to cost of govt.) with a grain of salt and then some..
    The growth in the govt is well documented at the U.S. Treasury website as the U.S. Treasury is the checkbook of the United States and has expenses and revenue from all aspects of the govt.

    It is my belief that it never was the intent of our Founders to have a govt. this size, 3.8 trillion dollars, nor was it their intent to have the Federal Govt. solve every state and local issue.

    now for more of my $0.02 on the alleged current and future cost of healthcare..
    in my relatively unknowing armchair opinion..
    to help pay for the free healthcare provided now and in the future to those that are uninsured by choice or otherwise, who are actually using, or have used in the prior calendar year, "free" medical services, they and anyone accepting public aid/welfare/subsidies, should be denied any tax return up to the assessed cost of services rendered.
    Hard to administer but I like the concept, just like I like the concept of billing the state department for healthcare administered to illegal aliens. That cost can then be billed to the country of origin or deducted from foreign aid.


    sadly, im sure that proposal or anything remotely similar isnt part of the HC bill/fleecing.. (as implied earlier, im really a mixed bag on this subject
    Logic, common sense, and a good review of history tells me that this healthcare bill isn't going to do anything to solve the healthcare problem and it is going to require a lot more taxpayer funding to pay for all the promises made.

    My point has always been is you cannot solve the healthcare problem without identifying and addressing ALL the costs of healthcare and that includes the cost of lawsuits and the illegal immigration problem

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Where do they go? Good question. I'm really not sure, but it would appear that a lot of the money goes to advertising, to CYA tests ordered by doctors, to visits to the emergency room that could have been paid for much more cheaply in a doctor's office.

    Some of it goes to patient treatment, some to R and D, of course, but I'd be willing to bet that more goes to advertising than to R and D.


    http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACFDC.PDF

    that report seems to have some interesting data related to how, what & where the dollars are spent..

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACFDC.PDF

    that report seems to have some interesting data related to how, what & where the dollars are spent..
    That link yielded a lovely black screen, but no data.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACFDC.PDF

    that report seems to have some interesting data related to how, what & where the dollars are spent..
    Rather old report, 2001

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I don't believe there are 46 million uninsured people in this country due to an inability to pay. I don't believe that the cost to the taxpayers is as high as Boo wants to make one believe for use of the ER's as most using the ER's actually have insurance. I don't believe the govt. number as to the cost of the healthcare bill nor do I believe it will improve quality, quantity, and lower costs.

    What numbers have I given you that you want me to defend?
    i was really not wanting defense of any numbers.. i was just asking your thoughts on the validity numbers being provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The growth in the govt is well documented at the U.S. Treasury website as the U.S. Treasury is the checkbook of the United States and has expenses and revenue from all aspects of the govt.

    It is my belief that it never was the intent of our Founders to have a govt. this size, 3.8 trillion dollars, nor was it their intent to have the Federal Govt. solve every state and local issue.
    cant agree more, but i also feel there are instances where lack of oversight allows the self-serving to manipulate the rules immorally(yet still legally) or simply create new rules(via "purchased" politicians) to benefit their personal and genrally finacial agenda at the expense of the nation.(eg. NAFTA)


    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Hard to administer but I like the concept, just like I like the concept of billing the state department for healthcare administered to illegal aliens. That cost can then be billed to the country of origin or deducted from foreign aid.
    i most certainly like the idea of billing the country of origin or deducting from the foreign aid provided. (grr... foreign aid... another hot button of mine)



    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Logic, common sense, and a good review of history tells me that this healthcare bill isn't going to do anything to solve the healthcare problem and it is going to require a lot more taxpayer funding to pay for all the promises made.


    My point has always been is you cannot solve the healthcare problem without identifying and addressing ALL the costs of healthcare and that includes the cost of lawsuits and the illegal immigration problem

    agreed.. now if we could manage to put in a congress that understands that..

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Rather old report, 2001
    yea i know.. id still say its safe to assume it only gotten larger in cost and bureaucracy..

    anyway hard as i tried(which really wasnt alot..lol) i couldnt find a more recent report, instead i found documented requests and no results that gave any great detail..

    im sure its there if i dig deeper..

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're dodging. Stay focused. Nothing wrong with fighting fraud and abuse while tackling this problem.

    And if people don't have enough money, and don't have insurance, they really can't pay. Even if they can pay some, over years, which isn't likely, it wouldn't fix the problem. Today, before reform, we are paying for them. That's the bottom line.
    Are you trying to imply that after "reform" they will be paying for themselves? Because I haven't seen where the taxpayers in this country will not be still paying for others health care.

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